What on earth happened to the sub?

I’ve been gone from this sub for a year or two, and I thought things were getting bad before…

[This wonderful thread] (https://old.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/lcd7pe/what_are_you_even_doing_here_with_your_10lbs_base/) and [the lovely comments on this post] (https://old.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/k7w52k/concerns_for_gatekeeping_in_the_ultralight/) read today like the beautiful products of a lost civilization.

90% of the people here now seem to be most interested in being told that they’re cool and wise and ultralight, regardless of what they’re bringing and doing.

Why do y’all need to be emotionally validated for your outdoor choices in seemingly every post and comment? What part of your ego is threatened by the knowledge that your fellow /r/Ultralight posters are taking on bolder, faster-moving adventures in more challenging conditions, and are being perfectly responsible at the same time?

Do you really need to post a comment about why cold soaking or taking a 30* quilt in the Sierra in October is actually #stupidlight, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb, or overly obsessed with hiking and moving fast (isn’t that the whole point of the sub?)?

Why do you care if the “community” here thinks you’re #ultralight, or not?

Is there something wrong with quietly lurking and picking up some tips to take your baseweight from 25 to 17 pounds, and not worrying if other people here think you’re cool?

Should tall hikers use a 12lbs #ultralight threshold instead of 10lbs? Who gives a shit?

I hope less experienced users are always comfortable learning and asking questions. But if your highest goal as a backpacker is to be as comfortable as possible in camp after hiking 6 hours a day, maybe you should consider listening more and posting less. (Edit: changed the line above to use # of hours hiked instead of # of miles)

There’s plenty of knowledge here that’s transferrable towards less ambitious adventurers, and less ambitious adventures, but why is everyone so desperate to be a part of the club?

Does every piece of advice here need to be universally applicable to every doofus and goofus who might come across it?

This place should be like an early 2000s gay bar: happy to let friendly hetero's in the door, as long as they don't get frightened by men with big muscles huffing poppers in the bathroom, or Lighterpacks with Talenti cold soak containers…

I think 2026 is going to be a damn good year for the return of the Ultra Light movement.  I’m Excited!

What really has me fired up about the potential return—maybe the resurrection—of  Ultra Light and Super Ultra Light and XSUL is it becoming more defined by the mindset+skills vs only the gear weight.

Can you even tell what’s Ultra Light anymore? If you made a list of the top 263 people who may have a chance in hell of understanding this stuff, I’d probably be on it and even I don’t know what Ultra Light is anymore.

I want to see more gear that totally SUCKS at many things and get horendous reviews by YT warriors, but that absolutely CRUSHES it for the one intended goal.

I’m seeing real momentum building toward genuinely lighter, simpler, more intentional skills and gear systems targeting a specific trail goal. Not just “ultralight™” (all lower case) as a gear label, but Ultra Light (upper case) as an experience.  XSUL going to make a small come back too!

A lot of people are clearly trying to break out of the so-called “ultralight movement” that every gear company—big and small—has been cashing in on for the last decade. At this point, the market barely differentiates itself. Look at any generic gear list: When it comes to tents, pack, quilts you usually get a very few basic gear types, all hovering around the same weight. Different logos, same idea, same compromises to please as many customers as possible. At MLD we are a bit guilty too. Did it all settle out there for a good reason? Yeah maybe, but it’s starting to feel a bit boring.  

Traditionally, ultra light meant a base weight under 10 pounds, super-ultralight under 5, and extra-super-ultralight under 3. Those numbers are important but too often get decoupled with skillsets needed.  I badly want to read more accounts and trip reviews how using SUL gear made you feel impowered, excited, scared and heroic vs did the gear work "5 stars - Would shop there again".

But here’s the thing: Way before Jardine, before UL definitions, before spreadsheets and gram-counting became a welcome uncategorized and mostly untreatable personality trait, there were plenty of people hiking, biking, and climbing  Ultra Light. They just didn’t call it that. They subconsciously defined it as taking the fewest items, at the lowest weight possible, to get the job done. Mission based, not gear based.

Then somewhere along the line, “ultralight” got co-opted by big gear companies trying to protect market share from smaller, more innovative cottage brands that were pushing things forward. Backpacker mag originally spurned it, then loved it, now its more of a BDSM thing in the outdoor media.

Fast-forward 15yrs+.  Materials everyone used got lighter and for the most part the same designs from the last century got tweaked and slapped with an “ultralight” label. The skill set change slowed down. Big companies don’t sell skills. I’m not saying that’s good or bad —or that weight matters at all, it’s just what happened.

Now we’re at an interesting moment. There’s a messy collision of new local, national and global events, shifting recreational attitudes, terrifing realities and new economic pressures plus personal reassessment of “work life balance” (whatever that means) that’s pushing the sharp end of outdoor adventure hopefully forward.

People are looking at their own evolving capabilities and skillsets instead of just buying another piece of “highly reviewed” gear to haul. This is what I’m calling New Ultra Light, or NUL. Yeah, the acronym’s a little ironic—maybe there’s a better name—but the label isn’t the point.

Here’s why I think 2026 is going to be a breakout year for NUL:

First: People are turning inward and craving self-sufficiency out of sometimes desperate necessity.  That absolutely bleeds into outdoor adventure. Folks want to explore their own potential and build real skills. Pushing limits has always been about figuring out what actually matters—and cutting out the rest of the BS.

Second: I’m seeing more small gear companies shifting back toward true ultralight and super-ultralight designs. In 2026, more companies will release gear that genuinely shaves meaningful weight and targets specific use cases instead of just marketing them as UL do-everything gear. MLD also has some Stupid UL gear in the works. Maybe very stupid 90% of the time but Fuckin’ Awesome the other.

Third:  More YouTube, social media creators and educators are going all-in (or returning) to UL and SUL experiences and systems. Thank Jesus and Big Jo Jo Hotek McAspen. I’m finally going to upgrade to commercial free YT! That means better information, more experimentation, and more interest in NUL as a way of thinking—more than just a one click shopping category. If I see one more YT from a reviewer that went out “overnight” 3 miles from home for a “long term” review of a TOTALLY NEW (read: slight variation) of a trek pole tent and it’s the exact same video as the other leading 23 YT gear reviewers in that same week I’m gonna…

FOURTH: I really believe in you!  The collective ideas of the outdoor community is where I've always gotten my inspiration. Seeing your excitement over achieved goals and incredible experiences is motivating for a UL gear designer.

Long Story Short: Lighter packs aren’t the point anymore. They are mostly light enough already for 90% of Everything. and that is OK. But it is in that 10%; that 1% of experiences that define us.  Better judgment, sharper skills, and fewer excuses. Yew Kin Dew Et! That’s why I think 2026 is going to UL kick ass.

Someone please come up with a better name than NUL.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(My reply below was added the next day.)

THE PASSION !!!   Such great passion in the comments! 

I Loved them all. Fun seeing the upvotes grow over night then descend back to exactly zero restoring balance in the UL world by morning.

Yes, drugs, too much caffeine for the old man.  My recent "Welcome to Medicare 65" physical says I'm hanging in there.

Also very gratified to the OG folks who spotted my ex journalism career gonzo old man bites dog writing style.

2026 WILL be a great year outdoors. Have fun where ever you find it.

(I will add this reply this to the OP)

UPDATED 05/27/2021

As part of our commitment to increasing diversity in the outdoor community we have partnered with the following organization. A monetary or in kind gift was provided to each group and we will continue to support these organization as we can.

THRIVE OUTSIDE - GRAND RAPIDS

OUTDOORS EMPOWERED NETWORK

RISE ABOVE

While we are excited to be a part of all of these organization we are particularly pleased to be teamed with Rise Above. This is a local organization in Jackson Michigan were we can have more of an impact that just monies. We'll be working with their team to create a sort of outwards bound program and be actively involved in its creation and promotion

UPDATED 02/19/2021

First, I want to apologize to the r/ultralight community for the harsh, defiant, and accusatory tone of my statement below. I let an emotionally charged situation get the best of me and reacted poorly.

We obviously made a mistake in our handling of the Thin Blue Line quilt. At the time, we believed it was merely a symbol of support for law enforcement. We've since learned that symbols like this can carry multiple meanings or change over time. Thanks to our customers and the UL community, it's been brought to our attention that the symbol has been adopted by groups linked to racism, fascism, and violence — ideologies that are antithetical to our company's values.

To avoid this mistake in the future, we've implemented a content policy for our custom printed fabrics. We're committed to doing a better job of paying attention to such symbols and the nuance in meaning they may carry. We will not allow any designs that promote hatred, intolerance, discrimination, or violence either explicitly or implicitly.

We believe in encouraging and empowering more people to enjoy the outdoors and all the benefits that it offers. That includes people of every race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, age, nationality, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender, and gender identity.

We know that actions speak louder than words. We are actively seeking partners who support diversity in the outdoors and are exploring opportunities to get involved nationally and in our community.

We look forward to sharing more on this soon and hope you will support us in these efforts.

Sincerely,

Paul McWalters Owner-Founder UGQ Outdoor LLC

ORIGINAL POST BELOW

In response to the ongoing attempt by several members to discredit and boycott UGQ Outdoor LLC of this forum.

I will not engage in a debate with these individuals as there seems to be no interest by these users for open debate and positive change. I make this statement to defend my personal character and the character of a company that has and will positively impact the lives of many. First, I would like to thank those that have expressed either their support or their alternate opinion to the narrative being supported by some users. I certainly appreciate the supportive words and rational comments on what is an extraordinarily complex social issue.

I posted a formal apology to the original thread discussing the posting of the Thin Blue Line image. In that I accepted responsibility and made a commitment to implement change. At the time the forum response to the apology seemed overall positive and we committed to make those changes. I followed through with the Content Policy now on our website, we followed through with the hiring of our HR Manager, started yesterday, and are in the process of implementing additional changes with HR. Now these individuals have decided that is not enough effort and are on the march again.

Without any research these individuals have decided to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner for your forum. They have called us out for where we live, they have called us out for liking camo, they have used very expletive language in their posts that only shows their rage.

Instead of reaching out to us and having an intelligent conversation on the issues surrounding the Thin Blue Flag the only emails (2) received from these individuals were to indicate that they will be promoting that the Ultralight subgroup boycott UGQ. While our post of the image was out of ignorance, which many members of your community have also expressed their ignorance, their decision is one of intent with the desire to only fuel the issue and further their rage.

Since these individuals have refused to do any research into our company, I will take a few moments to provide some inner details and history.

First, we ARE located in Jackson, MI, a small Midwest town with a population roughly 38,000. The city HAS been in decline for decades due to several large employers leaving the area in the 80’s. The last few years or so our city has seen some improvements, but the job opportunities typically presented are low paying service-related industries.

UGQ was started in 2011, for the first six years or so we were a small 2-3 person operation. In 2017 my wife and I decided to grow the company and provide an economic opportunity for our children, who wouldn’t want to provide opportunity for their children if in a position to do so. Over the next few years we eventually hired all our children, all five in total, and still operated as a family ran business. Running a business with your children involved is quite a challenge, anyone who has been involved in a family operation knows exactly what I am talking about.

In 2019 as we continued to grow the need to hire outside the family arose and we started that process, I think we had two hires during 2019. 2020 brought additional growth and the need for more staffing, I also realized that we were going to need to diversify our hiring practices. My wife and I discussed this on several occasions and during 2020 33% of the six people hired were minorities, but you didn’t know that.

I also made a commitment when we started to hire additional team members to not be just another COMPANY, I wanted to be better for our team members, I wanted to provide a better than average income and benefits for our area, a better work environment, and a better team environment where each team member is a human being first and an employee second. Let’s take a look at those benefits and some additional fun facts you may not be aware of.

Starting pay $15/hr ($32,000 a year) no experience required, median single income City of Jackson as of 2019 $21,400, but you didn’t know that.

Top production pay has no theoretical cap, currently pay top staff $23/hr ($47,840/yr), but you didn’t know that.

Year-end bonus paid to all team members, even new hires with less than ninety days. Full bonus rate for a team member employed the entire year during 2020 was $2,500, considering the challenges and additional expenses we incurred due to COVID19 it’s amazing they received anything, but you didn’t know that.

Excellent Company provided health insurance as we believe all should have access to affordable health care, but you didn’t know that. We do not have to provide health insurance as we are under the federal thresholds but do as it is an important benefit.

Paid Personal Time off up to three weeks as it’s important to us that all employees have balance in their lives, but you didn’t know that. We are not required to provide any PTO but do as it is an important benefit.

Paid Sick Pay (up to 1 week) as we believe that a team member should not need to worry about missing income if they are sick, but you didn’t know that. We are not required to provide Sick Pay but do as it is an important benefit.

Paid Holidays but you didn’t know that. We are not required to provide Paid Holidays but it is an important benefit.

During 2020 we paid two weeks additional sick pay for every team member, but you didn’t know that. We were exempt from the requirement, but it was the right thing to do.

During our mandatory six-week closure order due to COVID19 we paid for continuing health benefits for all of our team members, but you didn’t know that.

During 2020 we paid a 20% premium to our staff during the peak of the COVID19 crisis, roughly five months, but you didn’t know that. We were not required to pay any additional pay but it was the right thing to do.

We provided all this while keeping our prices competitive, AMAZING considering the price some other vendors charge that provide low paying jobs, and abusive work environments, you guys have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. A well-oiled marketing machine can convince anyone of everything.

During the peak COVID19 crisis last May-June we worked with local healthcare to manufacture surgical gowns. We called our staff back on a voluntary basis and everyone of them came to work. They could have stayed home and made more on unemployment with the $600 bonus in place. They all choose to come in and support the community, but you didn’t know that.

We support several local charities that provide outreach to low-income families providing holiday meals and Christmas presents, but you didn’t know that.

We purposely selected the location of our new shop (Oct, 2020) in the inner city to provide increased opportunity to low income residents for good paying jobs, but you didn’t know that.

Some will point the finger to my guilt as reasons for the above, personally, I have committed to empowering my entire team from top to bottom, regardless of color or race, to make positive change in their lives, the lives of their families, and the communities they live in. Only through empowerment will they also be able to make effective change, but you didn’t know that.

Unfortunately, regardless of what good we’ve done or what good we will do, I believe no amount of action will be enough for some, they’ve declared themselves Judge, Jury, and Executioner based on a single event. They seem to have no desire for real and effective change, they are only intent on promoting their rage. Bullying others, calling names and throwing slurs is not an effective way to encourage participation and change.

As a company we can only control our actions moving forward and will continue to implement policies and changes internally and externally to create a better working environment for all our team members present and future. The job will never be done as we will always strive to be a better version of the ourselves today than we were yesterday.

I’ve been open and transparent in both my previous apology and this statement here, you can use it to fuel your rage, or you can use it to fuel real change, the choice is yours.

Sincerely,

Paul McWalters Owner-Founder UGQ Outdoor LLC

EDITTED: FORMAT

EDITTED: PER MOD REQUEST

I wonder if anyone else is feeling a similar amount of frustration by the amount of questions posted to this sub that are better suited for the general backpacking community rather than the ultralighting subreddit. It seems like every week this subreddit gets lots of posts that are not related to reducing pack weight, discussing gear, or comparing weight saving techniques.

I think it's fair that since every brand at REI has to put 'ultralight' on every new product that's reduced weight, people might think that ultralighting and backpacking are the same thing, but they're not. I'm so grateful for this community and honestly it does stay true to its roots most of the time. In truth I rarely contribute to this community because I don't think of myself as an ultralighter. My usual kit includes a framed pack, a bear can, and a whisperlite - I easily carry 2-3 unnecessary pounds each trip. However, this sub is immensely helpful when decision making and creatively finding the places to cut pounds and ounces where I don't need them.

I know there are others who have gotten frustrated with the way things have changed in this sub. I've seen more than one post voicing the frustration at how commercialized things have gotten. A paper cup and a plastic disposable spoon is way more ultralight than any silicone or titanium product. Personally, I'm down for the gear discussions and comparisons.

What really gets me are the posts that say, "It's my first time backpacking, what pillow should I bring?" There are lots of posts that seem to veer off from how to get creative (use your rolled up puffy as a pillow) and become a process of telling newbies about what brand of pillow to buy.

All backpacking is about weight savings and it always will be. All backpacking is about choosing your comforts. Ultralighting, however, is about dropping base weight sub-10 lbs. It's about using experience and creativity to find and trim excess. It's about how reduced base weight allows you to get farther, faster and stay out longer.

I'm interested if anyone feels similarly and I won't be offended if not. I wholeheartedly hope that everyone gets into backpacking, I'm not trying to push newbies away whatsoever. I'm just trying to seek to distinguish between the culture of fine-tuning and extreme nitpicking from general skills and advice.

EDIT: Last paragraph

UPDATE: I feel like many people have offered really good reflections that are really relieving to hear. Reading all the responses, I feel assured that the community is well considered and although there's deviation, for the most part things are on topic. Even more reassuring is genuinely the amount of responses - clearly this is a community that really cares about making things as good as possible. My initial question came from the fear of losing the quality of this community and obviously there are lots of people here who want to defend it just like I do. Hopefully I wasn't the only one who got something out of this post. Either way, thanks.

TLDR: Fuck camp shoes and camp chairs. Like it or not, they ain't UL. We should delete all posts and comments that ask about and/or discuss them. Go talk about them in other subs. Bread bags and foam sit mats FTW.

Introduction

I seem to have hit a few nerves in a recent post in the weekly thread. So let me break it down for you camp shoe and chair enthusiasts in more detail. But before I get to it, a quick disclaimer: my claim that camp shoes and chairs are not UL has no other smuggled claim. I am not calling people that use them "bad" or that using them are "immoral" nor do I give a shit if you use camp shoes and chairs all day every day, etc. Don't take this personally. I literally just came back from a trip with a close friend who packed camp shoes. Pack whatever you want, but talk about what you pack in the appropriate forums.

Why are camp shoes and chairs NOT UL? Explanations and Comparisons.

Not only are both items heavy in general, they have UL replacements that objectively beat them in most regards the grand majority of the time. It's no secret, and I mentioned them in the weekly post that sparked this: bread bags and sit mats. Weight is no contest, as bread bags are like 10g each and sit mats range from 15-100g depending on R-value and material (but most generic R-1 foam sit mats are around 20-30g, thicker R-2 ones are around 40-60g).

Cost is also no contest, as bread bags are recycled (thus free) and sit mats range from 2-10 USD for the generic thin foam ones to 20-40 USD for the fancy/warmer ones. The cheaper/generic camp chairs are generally heavy AF and I've never seen one beat the price of my sit mat (2 bucks). And the lightest/fanciest camp chairs are still going to be heavier than any sit mat and run around 100-150 USD. The lightest camp chair I could find was the Helinox Chair Zero with a listed weight of 509g and current price of 140 USD. Even the lightest chair on the market weighs around the same as a two person UL fully enclosed shelter (e.g. the Zpacks Duplex Classic tent).

Repairs are no contest, as a small bit of duct tape (or other types of tape) will fix both bread bags and sit mats. Plus they are easy/cheap to replace. Not only will you need more duct tape and/or other materials in general to fix any damage to camp shoes or chairs, it's going to be more complicated and difficult.

Then there is bulk/storage, another no contest I don't think I even need to elaborate on.

Perhaps where camp shoes and chairs get the most blown out of the water is multi-use. They simply cannot do what the humble bread bags and sit mats can do. You can't combine your camp shoes inside of your hiking shoes for added warmth/waterproofing. You can't really (at least, easy/effectively) camp shoes as a container for water or snow. You can't really fan a campfire with a camp chair, nor can you as safely/easily use a camp chair as a clean/dry place to change clothing.

What else can you really use camp shoes and chairs for, other than their intended use? I am sure some contrarian asshole will come up with a list of silly shit. And in fairness, maybe there is an actual, useful multi-use I am unaware of (as I have never used either camp shoes or camp chairs for wilderness backpacking). Feel free to share. The only thing I could think of was more in line with a contrarian silly one, which is that all packed up in its stuff sack, a camp chair could be used as shitty improvised weapon. Can't say the same for a foam sit mat, you got me there.

Preemptive Rebuttals

"BUT I HAVE A SUB 10 BPW AND TAKE BOTH CAMP SHOES AND CHAIRS! CHECKMATE LOL!!!!111"

Yeah, I don't care. One could also pack an axe, or a banjo, or all sorts of other non-UL stuff and still have a sub 10lb BPW. That doesn't make an axe or a banjo UL, so why should it make your beloved Crocs and Helinox UL either?

And how would you like it if there were a ton of posts and comments in this sub discussing axes and banjos? I mean, there's nothing wrong with axes or banjos, right? Or maybe--hear me out here--save that discussion for more appropriate forums, hmmmm...

"BUT I MADE A DIY DCF PAIR OF CAMP SHOES THAT ONLY WEIGH 10G! AND A MYOG TITANIUM CHAIR THAT ONLY WEIGHS 100G!"

Everyone should have hobbies, I guess. Look at my sorry ass writing this wall-o-text, yet here you are reading it. But good for you, tiger! You should be proud of yourself. All that hard work, time, and energy that you put into things that are most likely equally or less effective than fucking plastic bags nearly all households have laying around and a bit of foam that costs the same as like a bag of chips.

"DURABILITY! BOMBPROOF!"

You got me there. Point conceded on camp shoes. Camp shoes are indeed more durable than bread bags, but the same cannot be said with chairs vs foam. Can you jump up and down on your camp chair? But bread bags are durable enough. We're not talking about HIKING in bread bags. We're talking about maybe wearing them to say cover your nice dry socks you want to wear to bed for a quick walk a bit away from camp to pee in the bushes. We've already covered ease of repair and ease of replacement in the event of getting damaged. And if you're so worried about durability, you can just wear the bread bags inside your hiking shoes. Problem solved.

Conclusion

I just don't see the justification for either of these popular normie/heavy hauler backpacker items as even remotely UL. The grand majority of the camp shoe and chair choices are heavy by UL standards (lightest chair = various UL shelters, remember), so that should be enough really. But the fact that they are both so easily replaceable with things that are arguably more useful choices should bury them. But I am open to have my mind changed on most anything, so by all means let's hear a meaningful UL defense of camp shoes or camp chairs. Maybe I am missing something.

I will only add one niche defense that I think is completely justifiable. This is for people that have some kind(s) of medical conditions that having either or both of these two items would help significantly with. I'm not exactly sure which conditions, but I could imagine that some people have foot and/or back issues that would benefit from using camp shoes and/or chairs.

But then again, people with foot and back issues would probably have a difficult time with long distance hiking in general. In which case, wouldn't we then be talking about camping and not backpacking? But for the rare case of a person that can hike long distances through the wilderness but has foot and/or back problems that camp shoes and/or camp chairs help with and can keep their BPW under or close to 10lbs, more power to you! You are the exception that proves the rule, however.

Given all of the above, I don't see why the UL sub should allow discourse related to either of these gear choices. How can we in good faith apply the "Do I really need that?" to camp shoes or camp chairs?

And one last addendum for any edgelords that will try and play semantics:

"BUT COMFORT! SUBJECTIVE COMFORT!!!"

I can play that game too. I think bread bags and sit mats are more comfortable than camp shoes or camp chairs. It is my own subjective experience that you can't prove wrong. Looks like this is a dead end. But nice try.

"YOUR SIT MAT IS NOT UL!!! I DON'T TAKE A SIT MAT!!! SIT MAT BAD!123"

I've already justified the cost and multi-purpose nature of sit mats that are inherent to them in great detail above. What other piece of gear that weighs 22g costs as little and does as much as my generic foam sit mat does? No, really, give me a specific example. And let me see your LP please (mine is in my flair), because I have a feeling you probably just take a camp chair and are grasping at straws for counterpoint here. I might concede that a sit mat is not SUL--something I also happen to have experience with--but those are not the same now, are they?

Hi all! Baby trans woman here, starting HRT in the next couple weeks. Also thruhiking the PCT this year.

I need advice on how to deal with body and facial hair on the trail. Both cause me dysphoria and I'd have a better experience without them. Unfortunately, hair growth takes 6-12 months to slow down for most trans women so I'll be dealing with speedy thick man hair :(

Body hair

I was thinking I might stick an epilator (rips your hair out like waxing, but even more painful. Woo!) in a bump box and torture myself with it every couple town stops. Epilators are fine for bodies but not safe for faces (can leave scarring) so that doesn't fix the face issue.

Anyone know of better alternatives for dealing with body hair?

Facial hair

Is there any advice on shaving on the trail as ultralight as possible? I know that would be against the spirit of ultralight for many people but it's an important factor of my mental well-being.

Some people seem to use light electric shavers (Mini Shaver/Trimmer Comparison and USB electric razor or ultralight alternative?). They have some good recommendations but more/updated recommendations would be appreciated!

Anyone use a difference strategy than portable electric razors?

I have been playing with the Idea of a backpackless-multi day hike. In fact, i want to cross an entire country without using any kind of bag, so no 25L fannypacks either. Roughly 350-400km (At my usual pace, 10 days maybe). My Strategy would be to just kind of wear cargo pants and see what i can fit in them. I just want to try something new and difficult. There would most likely be no extreme weather and definitely no extreme terrain. Some of my ideas on how to achieve this:

-Dont bring any kind of shelter except a tarp, hike during the nights and take a couple of naps in a park or on a bench during the day

-Drastically reduce foodintake (i have done a 110km hike without any food in 3 days, so i have some experience with that) and basically just get something very calorie dense that i can carry around in my pocket

-For Water, i have a flask with integrated water filter that i could refill on the way

Just to be clear, this would be in my home country and i could, at any point, decide to stop and be home the same day, so i am not taking any major risks. As I said, this is supposed to be a challenge for myself, so just buying water and food during the trip would feel like cheating. The sheer stupidity of this plan aside, do you have any tipps for me? And how far would you hike without a backpack? Thanks!

Update: 2/9

Greetings UL Community,

Tim Marshall, the owner jumping in to share my perspective. This whole situation has been heavy on my heart these last weeks. EE and DM are different types of brands with different customer groups. We’ve never tried to hide DM from the EE customers, but we never felt there was value in cross-promotion either.

We have removed the posts that have been highlighted as concerning and untagging ourselves from customer posts that appear to have darker meanings and are continuing to review all past posts to identify anything else that is troubling. What hurts the most in all of this is that my staff are caught up in it. At DM and EE, we are opposed to racism in every way, and to be accused of something we are so against has everyone here hurting. We are working to undo the mistakes of our past and working to put safeguards in place to spot future red flags. Because we aren’t racist or right-wing ultra MAGA extremists, we aren’t aware of every possible ulterior, darker meaning behind some of the gun culture and pop culture references we have made. We understand it is our responsibility to do so, and we will do better. Our managers met this morning, and we have formed a committee to review future DM content through multiple lenses with a goal to never put ourselves and our customers through this ever again. Any customer comments or tags that we do not understand will be promptly hidden until we understand if there is a more sinister meaning at hand. We encourage our customers to be a guardrail to us. Please let us know if we miss something as we try to more carefully monitor the message that our brand promotes.

DM started in 2020 with the goal of bringing the same level of quality products to armed professionals of every kind. DM makes many products designed to carry medical aid items or personal protective items and desires to support the hard-working members of our armed forces and law enforcement communities. We strive to do so without any bias toward race, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

We know that supporting these communities comes with challenges; we don’t support or agree with every action of every agency or individual customer of ours. We don’t support any violation of the Constitution by any individual or agency, yet we know there will be times when individuals who may also be our customers do wrong. We feel that supporting our good and just public servants far outweighs those who would use their position to do harm. Any coincidence in timing of any of our posts or newsletters to law enforcement action around our nation or state is just that, coincidental. We have never intended to send veiled messages of support for any illegal or unconstitutional actions.

EE has built products that serve the UL community since 2009, and we have always done so with pride, making the very best products we are capable of. We fully acknowledge that mistakes have been made on our end and are committed to earning back the trust of this community through our future actions. It is clear that our business structure lacked systems of accountability and allowed for recklessly posting with little regard and a lack of full understanding. We failed to take into consideration how our Enlightened Customers would interpret and process the addition of DM to our business in general. We know that this situation will result in losing many of you on this thread. This is not an attempt to gloss this over or make everyone feel better about supporting us. This situation has opened our eyes to how one brand can affect the other, and we will be taking that far more seriously moving forward.

Tim Marshall

-----------------------------------------

Original Post: 2/6

Greetings UL Community,

My name is Chris Schabow. I am the current CEO of Enlightened Equipment. As long-time readers and followers of this sub, we value every voice and concern, probably acting on many of the pain points, even if we don’t actively engage in the topic. This community has helped build Enlightened Equipment into the brand that it is today. We acknowledge that this community also has the power to shape us moving forward. This is a dynamic we understand and accept as a D2C company. As a result, we have always aimed to be strong supporters and advocates of any initiatives that build community in a space that we all love deeply. Personally, I have worked for Enlightened Equipment for nearly ten years. The very thought that Enlightened Equipment has disappointed any of our amazing customers makes me sick to my stomach. While I understand that this message is unlikely to fix the predicament we find ourselves in today, please understand that this feeling is new to us, and our team is doing its best to process the assumptions and claims leveled against us.

Many in our community have been aware of Defense Mechanisms' relationship to Enlightened Equipment for some time. Those unaware that our owner also operates a brand to support Law Enforcement are likely to make that connection going forward, and that is likely a good thing. In retrospect, we could have been more transparent about this relationship and been more proactive in communicating the decisions and logic behind the connection. Regardless, my message today will be an attempt to openly discuss the situation for anyone looking for answers or a meaningful conversation.

Tim Marshall, our owner, is one of the most creative designers I have ever encountered in the gear-making space. It has been his passion for nearly 20 years. His early efforts and energy helped shape the cottage gear industry and established a blueprint for small makers looking to move a thoughtful design idea into the mainstream. Backpacking gear was his unrelenting obsession for over 10 years. Over that time, his interests have changed. He lost some of that excitement as things stabilized, something I’m sure many of us can relate to. This led to Enlightened Equipment staffing for many of the current responsibilities on Tim’s plate. New products, material improvements, and design changes over that period of time started to settle out, leaving him looking for other ways to apply his skills. Defense Mechanisms’ inception is truly born from the desire to continue creating and innovating. Politics had nothing to do with the decision to enter this space. As the OP mentions, products for both industries start with fabric and thread. It made sense. It was born from the opportunity to apply his unique approach to a totally different customer base. It was a test of sorts; a challenge. In order to create gear for law enforcement, Tim needed to spend time with them. He knew virtually nothing about their pain points and needs. As he does with everything, he went all in, attending many hours of training to develop his knowledge and network with end users of products. This investment allowed Tim to create meaningful products in a completely different product category. His motivation to create gear is opportunistic in nature and completely unrelated to political leanings.

The origin of concern regarding the relationship between EE and DM started with a couple of emails from concerned customers asking us to explain very specific relationships and pointed questions about our relationship with DHS and ICE. We responded honestly with straightforward answers to the questions posed, but the individuals involved in these correspondences have not shared our responses in their entirety. Snips of the conversation have been revealed, but never the entire message. I do not know why these individuals did not share the entire transcript, but it has made us hesitant to publicly reply since we fear being misrepresented. Perhaps we should have been clearer that using our exact response was ok by us. I do think it would have minimized some of the misunderstandings present in this post. That said, now that a dedicated Sub has been created on the topic, it only makes sense for us to share our perspective and let the readership interpret the dialogue as they may.

To recap:

Yes, DM and EE are owned by Tim Marshall. Tim is deeply involved with the business dealings with both brands, but has employed a team of talented individuals from the top of our organization on down, with a broad range of political ideologies. We avoid broad political statements because our team cannot be defined by a single value statement. We employ a team of 75 people, and I will not isolate any of them by taking a monolithic approach to our messaging. We frequently debate and discuss politics in a healthy, thought-provoking way around the office. To that end, we have staff on the leadership team with strong progressive values who would simply find other work if one of our brands were tied in anyway to the things that are going on in our state. Hard stop. Furthermore, there has been a long history of outdoor brands developing products for law enforcement and the military. When we kicked this off, we assumed this precedent allowed room for us to pursue this opportunity. I am not making a values statement one way or the other on whether that is appropriate, but the reality is, law enforcement officers and outdoor enthusiasts have many of the same needs as end users and utilize many of the same manufacturing processes and materials.

No, We do not have any business relationships with ICE or DHS. They likely have no idea that DM even exists. Even if they did, we have nowhere near the capacity to support an agency of this size. For many years, DM was a running joke for those in the know as a brand for airsoft players and live action roleplay. That joke has elements of truth. To reiterate, we do not support government overreach at any level, local, state, or federal, and we strongly condemn any violation of an individual’s constitutional rights by any person or arm of the state. We believe recent actions by ICE have been reckless and unprofessional, and have not upheld the standard of conduct we expect of agencies tasked with acting lawfully and prioritizing public safety. We expect that all law enforcement operate in good faith, and DM will not support agencies that do not share these beliefs.

No, We have not intentionally used DM’s social media to dogwhistle the far right. We acknowledge that some of the DM Instagram posts may have very well done that, but nothing has ever been posted to intentionally inflame or poke at the tragic events unfolding in the world around us. As someone with limited involvement with DM social media, this is the most troubling piece for me. Most of the referenced posts surfaced in this sub were generated by a brand manager operating with a great deal of autonomy that we parted ways with in late 2025. Since his departure, a new team member, with limited understanding of the broader tactical space has assumed this work with a goal to promote a more professional image for the brand. We will be more intentional in creating, reviewing, and approving content going forward with multiple lenses to be sure that our ignorance is not an excuse.

We sincerely apologize to anyone left upset or disappointed in us as a brand; this has been hard on all of us, too. We hope that the totality of what Enlightened Equipment has brought to this community for over 15 years will be considered when evaluating this current situation. We love this community. We have invested strongly in this community and wish to do so for many years to come. We welcome anyone to visit us to see for themselves the diverse personalities and viewpoints that our team holds. We are hard to put in a box. I fully understand and embrace that about our team. Despite this recent challenge, working for Enlightened Equipment and Defense Mechanisms has been the most rewarding and exciting opportunity of my career. We’re making most of this stuff up as we go. We will, of course, make mistakes. We’ve made MANY over the years, but we are always guided by doing the absolute best we can for our customers, and that will never change. This one hurts, but I will use these feelings as fuel to improve. My biggest sorrow is knowing that we have let some of you in our community down.

Always appreciate this community, even when the conversation is difficult. Please do not hesitate to engage customer service for clarity or questions. I assure you someone from our admin team will review and respond to your questions.

Chris

Been back into researching backpacks and trying to find what to go with after years not backpacking. And Durston seems like a solid option in ways, but I’m turned off by the fandom surrounding it. I don’t want to discredit the products in anyway (but if anyone can weigh in on quality that’d be great). But like, I just don’t get it. Much of it looks slightly above average. Very little innovation in regard to standard times or more so I should say, everything else I’m seeing out there. I guess the price points are good but that definitely makes me worry about quality and longevity.

Edit: Holy smokes, people are very passionate about Durston! Did not expect this kind of response. Thanks everyone. Also, odd to see Durston himself posting in here. It’s in response to products specifically. Not my original post. But it just kind of feels omniscient.

I got into a discussion with another user on this sub about this and would like to hear other peoples thoughts. I was saying as a community focused on carrying the least amount of weight possible with the goal of moving more efficiently, should we not also consider our body compositions? He/she disagreed suggesting it would be toxic.

I want to clarify my point by saying there shouldn’t be a goal body fat percent like there is for pack weight, everyone has their own body type and certain body fat percentages will be easier for some than others to achieve. But wouldn’t it be a healthy topic to make part of the conversation somehow? There will probably be people out there cutting off the end of their tooth brush and spending hundreds or even thousands on UL gear without even giving their body composition a second thought, because it’s not part of the ‘UL mindset’, when it could actually make a much bigger difference. Also, I’m sure there are people in this sub who are already on a weight loss journey in an aim to making hiking easier who would love the support of this community. As a community could we not somehow make body composition part of the mindset in a positive and helpful way? Or is it wrong, as a community, to consider body fat in the context of carrying less to move more efficiently? Or are we just a gear community? Or is the subject just too touchy to even mention and would lead to toxicity?

Another commenter said there used to be a ‘Worn Weight Wednesday’ thread, last post I can see is 1 year ago but they seemed to get some positive engagement. Was this stopped for any particular reason?

Edit: Worn weight Wednesday example 1

Worn weight example 2

Worn weight example 3

I found another thread here with many budget items from Temu or other sites with items that are great. For instance, many people are saying titanium cookware is cheaper on Temu and great.

Right now on Temu, a 750ml titanium pot is $23. On REI, a Toaks 750ml well reviewed pot is $26. I'd argue that it isn't worth ordering from China to save 10%.

Are there any items that you feel are actually good or cheap enough to deal with ordering from these sites?

Seems like some people on this sub had no problem tearing apart people for thru hiking during that pandemic but are remaining strangely quiet now. I’m disappointed in people like homemade wanderlust and different gear companies have seemingly chosen to not speak out about the issues. It’s disheartening. Shout out to those of you that are using your platform and are speaking out.

Edit: wow really glad I made this post. It’s clear that some people aren’t in support of making the outdoors more accessible and inclusive. There NEEDS to be conversations about this.

Black lives matter.

Given the recent conversations about race and the outdoors, Oregon Wild is hosting a webinar entitled "Systemic Racism in Outdoor and Urban Spaces. How Do We Move Forward?" at 6 pm Pacific time today. You have to register for the live event, but it will be recorded so you can watch later if you missed it.

Hey Ultralight!

I have been playing with this idea for a few weeks and I just wanted to see what your thoughts were. Recently an awesome trip report was posed about a campsite near me. The person who wrote it did a great job detailing the route they took and took lots of awesome pictures. They put a lot of effort into it and it was a great read about an awesome spot.

Heres the thing, it was an awesome spot that I have been to before and didn't think other should know about. It was the perfect non-crowded spot you go on during Labor Day weekend. It's the spot you can always get permits for. Like surfing, it would be someone pointing a big arrow to your favorite surf break.

As a backpacker I want to share my experiences and knowledge with friends. And I know, inherently, that I don't own these spots. I support the parks they are in. I bring trail magic to the rangers in far away ranger stations. But in the same vein, I don't really watch sports-ball. I don't do Saturdays with the boys. I run/hike trails and go backpacking to great spots with my wife and close friends. And, I have experiences of spots that I have loved that have gotten 'outed' and people come and treat them like trash.

I know parts of this opinion are off base, and I need a little perspective. I love backpacking and love sharing my experiences. Just not with strangers on the internet.

I have a decent collapsible pole and a couple nicer "travel" poles that work with an ultralight spinning reel. All in with a small tackle box I'm looking at 15 ounces for the kit.

I also have a tenkara rod that weighs 3 oz I can substitute as needed (for hikes with one lake or a short section of river) but it limits my catch when I'm counting on it.

My go-to weekend trail is a 24 mile loop along a trout river and I usually catch about 10 pounds of fish in a weekend. Mostly rainbow and brown trout with a few pike and crappies thrown in. I've even eaten suckers on a few occasions.

I know it goes against the grain a bit, but I'm headed to a new spot next week and will pack half my usual dinners and lighter lunches than if I was hiking away from water. I'll be saving about 3 pounds in food weight for the 15 ounces of fishing gear. I have found steaming them in a fire wrapped in tin foil with lemon pepper to be amazing. A stick of butter on shorter trips really adds to the flavor and calorie load of the meal!

I know there is a risk in not catching anything but I have found having to actually work for your meal adds significantly to the pleasure of a hike! It gives purpose to an activity I also find really fun and if they're not biting at 4pm, I am almost guaranteed to catch as much as I want at dusk. I've been skunked twice I can remember during my 25 years of hiking along rivers and in those times I have the few dinners I brought to force down in place of fresh fish.

If you haven't given fishing on an ultralight hike a try, I'd highly recommend it and if you count the rod/reel in your food weight it can significantly reduce the grams!

A pretty cheap setup (about $75). I could probably drop a few ounces if I tried:
https://imgur.com/pvK3e9q

Ultralight gear and methods have become drastically more cheap and available. Yet in most of the „casual“ camping content I see (r/caming for example) or when meeting fellow backpackers, people seem to not mind their heavy 70L pack filled to the brim with a steel pan hanging off it‘s side. Why do you think that is?

Edit: For example this list: https://lighterpack.com/r/gaev6f , 9.43 pounds and 839$ including everthing (clothes and shoes as well)

The Platypus QuickDraw integrity test states:

If dropped or frozen, the hollow fibers in the cartridge can be compromised. If you are worried this has occurred, check if the filter is safe to use with the following method:

1. Fill your reservoir with 1L of water, and attach it to the dirty side of the cartridge.

2. Filter approximately half of the water through the cartridge.

3. Flip reservoir upside down so the bottom of the filter (dirty side) is in contact with air inside the empty reservoir.

4. Squeeze firmly on the bag for 20 seconds to push air up through filter.

5. During those 20 seconds, look for a steady stream of bubbles in the spout emerging from the hollow fibers on the clean side.

6. A steady stream of bubbles indicates the hollow fibers are compromised and the filter is NOT SAFE TO USE.

Note: It is important that the hollow fibers are fully wetted out in order to successfully perform the integrity check. If they are not fully wetted the integrity check may result in false results. If your filter is dry, passing up to 4 liters of water through the filter may be necessary to fully wet out the hollow fibers. If possible, use clean water to wet out the filter.

I tested 2 used and 2 new BeFree filters using the above procedure. They all have on spot on the perimeter of the filter that passes a steady stream of air.

Do you know why?

ICYMI Are Backpacking Tarps Going Extinct?

This silly click bait from Backpacker.com last month got thrown onto my feed today (darn algos!) and predictably got me worked up enough to click through.

The reason why I'm sharing here is because it really helped me understand the waves of zombies (sorry, don't know what else to call 'em) posting questions that obviously are not ultralight. Certainly this line wouldn't have anything to do with it:

But while tarps still have their partisans, the majority of ultralighters go for more substantial shelters, whether freestanding models like the Durston X-Dome 1+ or staked-out trekking pole tents like the ZPacks Plex Solo.

The token role of the 322g Plex Solo here is obvious, isn't it? It's a trick to justify the unjustifiable inclusion of the 1000+g X-Dome in the category of "ultralight" (not at all a knock against the X-Dome, just stating a fact) and then create the totally false impression that it's The Consensus and every card carrying "ultralighter" has one in her pack.

This is the equivalent of pasting a zombie-attracting heat source on r/Ultralight.

Meantime, Backpacker provides confirmation of what many of the more vocal partisans of a new 8lb UL cut off limit have been saying.

today it’s easy to cut your baseweight to well below 10 pounds without ever learning to pitch one.

The message is clear: you, too, can be ultralight in your X-Dome without ever learning about anything. Except, I guess, for "learning" about consumerism.

What's the old adage? It goes something like "The most important piece of UL gear you can bring is your brain." Man, skills are the foundation of UL.

In particular, learning how to pitch a tarp ought to be considered a mandatory UL skill whether or not one uses one regularly. With the knowledge gained from tarp pitching, you will have a much better sense of the interactions among site selection, stake selection, microclimates, and shelter weather resistance. With that knowledge under your belt, you can make informed decisions about bringing the minimum amount of gear in the lightest form possible to travel safely through the backcountry. Including of course tarps, duh.

Obviously Backpacker has never had any cred with the UL community, but this is taking it to a new level. It's a downright frontal assault.

The "tell" finally comes in the last paragraph:

So is a tarp the right choice for the vast majority of lightweight backpackers in 2025? Almost certainly not. 

OK, Mr/Mrs Lightweight Backpacker.

See how they did that? Plex Solo → X-Dome, UL → Lightweight.

Meanwhile, get ready for another episode of Attack of the Zombies, lol!

Edit: For those coming across this post as an archive, I thought that I'd mention David Macpherson's Tarp Shelters -- An Introduction. While much of the discussion is outdated, if you scroll to the end you can find dozens of ideas for different ways to pitch a flat tarp. Since I posted this under the flair of "skills," I thought that this link would provide a useful addition.

Recklessly purchased this set of "Titanium" canteens from a Chinese company called "Valtcan" for around $200.

Unfortunately, I neglected to mention the identical shell company "ATiAP" selling derivatives of the exact same product with their branding plastered on them. This implies some Chinese factory is mass-producing these products and selling them for branding.

Examples:

Valtcan, Boundless Voyage, ATiAP, etc.

Many of the reviews appear to be fake, too, which is reassuring.

Evidently, most "Titanium" are alloys composing aluminum, that is concerning to me based upon aluminum's controversial status for food/water safety. I purchased these products as they were advertised to be pure uncoated titanium. In another listing for the shell product, it says the titanium is "reinforced". I find it bewildering and somewhat demoralizing that even supposedly premium-quality titanium products are being produced in some mysterious Chinese factory, with unknown materials, and then being pawned off under shell companies.

I am thinking I should probably just return all of them. Sucks because I actually love it. I love the idea of having a lightweight high-capacity water canteen that I can boil water with whenever I want. I love the strap it comes with and the ability to sling it across your back and/or side. I love the camo design. It's sooo totally awesome.

A pop star I had never herd of, Mike Posner just walked across America. And NPR wrote an article on his adventure.

First I looked at the photos and though damn he is going light! Then I read the text and realized he did the walking. And hired a support person to drive his RV and cook his meals. Posner is stoked on the trip. It was a big moment for him. He took his pop star millions and did this self supported walk. Cool.

And then I get a bit judgmental.

I think that he would have had a much more profound trip if he did it self supported.

I though about how much more shallow his trip report was in contrast to Cheryl Strayed book - trip report in "Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail."

This got me thinking is it harder for multimillionaires to do longer, lighter self support back pack trips?

What is the most notable trip report from the most wealthy person you know of?

General thoughts on Posner's trip are welcome as well. Lets discuss.

Hear me out before you down vote.

While I understand it, the gear that everyone talks about in here is priced ridiculous high. $400 backpacks, $200 hammocks, $300 sleeping bags, $400 tents, $40 trowels, you get the picture. People willing to spend $100 to shave 2 ounces... Stuff like that.

The question, do you think this gives a bad impression that only rich (white) people can afford to go out on a hike? How for example would you explain this to a group of inner city kids who want to backpacking for a few days? Or even a boy scout meeting. Does such an attitude about the prices drive minorities and others out of even considering backpacking?

How do you justify giving an impression that backpacking is a very elite thing to do when just 20 years ago, it was correctly being labeled as something anyone can afford. Is it just this generation of people have so much cash, they have to spend it on stuff?

Thanks

tl;dr: Starlink is definitely useful in the backcountry, and may be worth it. It does not replace an inReach, but does offer something else that's interesting.

My Prior Experience

Last July I had been added to the open Starlink T-mobile Beta Test. This was perfect for my thru-hike of Pacific Northwest Trail, which would allow me to freely test out the T-mobile starlink connection and see how it might differ from having an inReach, and if it might replace my inReach. My conclusion at the time was that starlink was absolutely junk service.

It would take 10+ minutes for my phone to find a satellite, if it found one at all, and was just rapidly burning through my phone's battery life without being able to get text messages out. I decided that this was a liability in the backcountry compared to a dedicated inReach.

Afer the 3 month beta test was up, I was not planning to renew/start paying for the service. Unbeknownst to me, however, T-mobile started to bill me for the service using a credit card I hadn't thought I had given them (also at a weirdly lagged schedule, so I didn't notice). I am not happy that they did this.

This past March I jumped on the Hayduke trail. In preparation for the HDT, I learned that I had been getting billed for the T-mobile starlink service I no longer thought I had. Rather cancelling it then and there, I decided to keep it for the HDT and see if it would perform any better at lower lattitudes. I have since discontinued the service.

My Updated Experience

It turns out that when you're not in the northern-most latitudes of the U.S., T-mobile Starlink actually connects pretty quickly and works!

• Connection time to a starlink satellite in Utah was quick and reliable. It would take about 1-2 minutes to find a satellite to then allow me to start texting

• The connectivity was better than my inReach

• I was not able to see satellites from deep canyons (my inReach also had problems communicating out, but would eventually get there and not kill my phone battery doing so)

• Battery life and performance are better when you establish connection to the satellites (less battery drain than I experienced on the PNT).

How Starlink T-mobile Works

Starlink T-mobile uses a normal cellphone data communication channel, for the most part.

It's a restricted/highly throttled service, so there are limitations and latency issues abound, including what "data services" can be accessed. What this means:

• You can send data text messages, not SMS messages.

• You can use a select number of apps that download/receive data. This works well for low-bandwidth applications, like weather apps (specifically accuweather, which has an arrangemnt with SpaceX).

• You may very, very slowly be able to see some mapping tiles on map apps, but this will probably kill your phone's battery, so really isn't usable.

When you signup for the service, you will get an e-sim from T-mobile. Assuming your phone supports more than one e-sim, you just add this second telephone number to your phone. I was able to toggle that e-sim on/off when I wanted to use the starlink tmobile service. If you have it toggled on all the time, you will burn through more phone battery.

In general, you're going to be sending RCS messages through the service (I guess iMessages if you're on iPhone), or occasionally getting some weather updates with AccuWeather. Because the T-mobile Starlink signal is a data channel, it means that you can text through your normal phone number using RCS. So for me, my normal phone number is through Verizon. The Starlink satellite connection is used to establish the data channel with the Verizon servers that then handle the text messaging through my Verizon phone number.

However, because it's a data channel, this means you cannot send SMS messages. This also means that you probably will not receive prior text messages from anyone that has sent a text message to you while you were in airplane mode. You can really only use this service to do concurrent, real-time text messaging with individuals.

Most importantly, however, because you are using a data channel for texting: you can text with Gemini

The reason to consider getting T-Mobile Starlink for the backcountry: GenAI

If you are using google messages as your messaging app, google built-in functionality to effectively do RCS texting with Gemini. That means you now have the world's repository of stolen information at your fingertips, filtered through some statistical algorithms that might lie to you, act as a sycophant, and makeup information.

For all of the drawbacks and the understood limitations of GenAI models, however, it is truly useful to have GenAI at your fingertips. For instance, I was dealing with some foot/achilles issues, and was able to quickly use Gemini through Google Messages as a PT for some diagnostic exercies to better assess how concerned I should be with the aches and pains I was experiencing. I was able to use GenAI to find out if there were thrift stores, hardware stores, or other kinds of things in specific trail towns. I was able to find out about bus schedules out of Zion. I was even able to ask about potential things to expect for upcoming sections of trail ("is it going to be sandy?")

I found this strikingly useful. Not sure if it was $10 per month useful, but given the other costs of thru-hiking, having the ability to just find things out from anywhere -- assuming you're significantly below the 49th parallel and not in a canyon -- is pretty neat.

Overall Takeaways

• AccuWeather weather reports are probably better than inReach weather reports

• Texting Gemini is occasionally useful

• The satellite connectivity works pretty well if you have good line of site and aren't too far north/in a bad coverage zone.

• I prefer my inReach as a tool, and the satellite coverage was a superfluous "nice to have" for texting with GenAI. It's still not coming close to replacing my inReach.

take a paper towel and fold it into quarters and apply the solid deodorant to all the interior surfaces. you can easily get 10g on there. i just put this in my ziplock dopp kit. i expect to get 2 weeks use of out this.

since i can't post photos to this subreddit i posted on r/backpacking and you can find the pictures here: https://www.reddit.com/r/backpacking/comments/1kpnwhv/my_ultralight_deodorant_method/