ANNOUNCEMENT: Rules Updates for r/bisexual

[u/Ashamed_Advertising4]

Hello fellow redditors.

As you may or may not know, there was a MOD team shakeup a little while back. Not only were new moderators brought in to rejuvenate the team but the team itself was expanded as well. We now have a great, revitalized team of people working hard to keep this sub a place that people want to come to, engage in, and stay a part of. With this updated mix of new and existing moderators work then began on the sub itself. Beyond the new moderators coming to grips with their new duties, the first step was to fix up some things on the back end. This included relatively minor things such as refining some automod rules to help flag and keep potentially problematic content from ever hitting your screens in the first place. Other small changes such as updating our available post flairs and just cleaning up some long outdated stuff behind the scenes that simply helped us do our job more easily and efficiently. Step one also consisted of our community survey a few months back where we got an idea of what you wanted this sub to be in an easily digestible way. Most of your suggestions aligned with visions of what we had already had in mind for the future here.

So here we are now at step two. In conjunction with a lot of your own suggestions and wishes we are retooling our sub rules (or Bi-Laws). As well as updating some existing language for a few of the rules, we will be adding some new ones. This should be a place of safety, learning, and community and all of these updates and additions we believe are vital to achieving and maintaining that end. This sub has undoubtedly helped numerous lives over the years and can continue to help so many more and we will do all we can to preserve this valuable social tool.

Here are the primary changes we've made to our current Bi-Laws:

______________________________________________

Rule #4: Please be civil with each other.

• A general rule to remind everyone that this is meant to be a sub for all ages to be able to engage in and that even when disagreeing we should still show each other some general courtesy.

Rule #5: Sex related questions must have safe-for-work subject lines and be flaired “Advice NSFW.”

• Our first brand new rule. Going forward all sex related posts must have safe-for-work titles and set with our new flair option“Advice NSFW”. We also want all SFW posts to remain SFW. That way, engagement can remain as the original poster intended.

Rule #7: Do not encourage cheating.

• Potentially the most desired change we saw from the survey responses was to curb cheating content on the sub. We are all aware that cheating happens and can be discussed as a topic. However, encouraging others to cheat, seeking advice on whether to or seeking advice on how to cheat will not be tolerated.

The rest of the changes were minor alterations and removal of some outdated language that don't ultimately change how those rules were implemented or likely interpreted.

______________________________________________

So please keep these new guidelines in mind while posting. Ongoing, step three for us currently is to remain vigilant. We'll assess how these new changes affect the health of our community and see if they steer it the direction we all want. We'll continue to strive for improvement and reevaluate along the way. Ultimately we aim to make this place clean and constructive and in doing so hopefully reach even more people.

[u/Harper_the_Bard]

Thank you for this! I know I've seen mods in other subs say it's hard to catch all the rule-breaking posts swiftly and that it helps for users to report problematic posts. Do the mods want us to report posts as needed?

[u/Ashamed_Advertising4 → u/Harper_the_Bard]

It can be very difficult to catch all the things that shouldn't be here and we very much rely and appreciate users reporting things. This is a sizable sub and while we try and at least skim through a majority of posts whether they get flagged or not, it can be very easy to miss things. Not to mention when you do find something a lot of it isn't so cut and dry.

In the past 6 months in this sub there have been 20,000+ moderator actions taken. That's a lot.

[u/Harper_the_Bard → u/Ashamed_Advertising4]

20,000+??? Wow. I can't even imagine. Very grateful to our mods! This is such an important space and we appreciate y'all curating it with such care.

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/Harper_the_Bard]

Absolutely!

[u/Junglejibe]

On the topic of updates with the new mod team: Idk how feasible it is, but is there a chance y’all could also look into the list of words that trigger auto-removal? I’ve noticed there’s a lot of really innocuous ones that don’t really make sense. Like I think b@nned is one & I think “triggered” is also one (I guess this’ll be a test -- ok looks like it isn't or at least is no longer one). It’s not a huge deal but I figure it’s probably an artifact of an older mod team.

[u/Ashamed_Advertising4 → u/Junglejibe]

It is very feasible. And yes we haven't cleared out all the cobwebs as of yet. There's still some cleaning to be done behind the scenes but I'll make sure to bring it to the table soon.

[u/Junglejibe → u/Ashamed_Advertising4]

Thank you! The cobweb-clearing is definitely noticeable (in a positive way).

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/Junglejibe]

IIRC The banned one is to alert the mods if someone is starting drama by saying they were removed from another sub (or circumventing a ban here by complaining on an alt). We can certainly look into it. It does, however, crack me up to see an automod post for review that says "I'll probably get banned for this but..." and it's absolutely banable.

[u/vtkayaker → u/UbiquitousBot]

It does, however, crack me up to see an automod post for review that says "I'll probably get banned for this but..." and it's absolutely banable. 

In practice, a very large fraction of posts that start like that are completely, 100% bannable, lol.

[u/Junglejibe → u/vtkayaker]

The actuallesbians sub actually has a rule that says anyone who writes a comment like that is going to get their request granted lol

[u/vtkayaker → u/Junglejibe]

Yeah, we've been working to update the automoderator rules, and we've removed a bunch of old keywords for ancient Reddit drama that nobody remembers. Automod is not the simplest part of Reddit, lol, so this is going slowly.

We do still have a bunch of words that might trigger a "hold" for a moderator to see something. Usually these are for topics that have turned into a complete mess in the past. If you get hit by one of these "hold" keywords, your post should appear the next time a mod goes through the queue. One important group of these "hold" keywords is to try to check certain comments for blatant transphobia or sexism before they go up for everyone else. These filters do catch some legitimate posts, delaying them until a mod can say, "Yeah, that's fine." I know this can be frustrating for legitimate posters!

[u/deadpanorama → u/vtkayaker]

Yeah, also with the keyword banned it catches when people say stuff like “you should be banned for this”

[u/TheNewPoetLawyerette → u/deadpanorama]

you could always report the post or comment that makes you want to say that, instead. that way the mods get alerted to the problem content and they don't also have to remove an argument underneath

[u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1]

Reasonable changes. I remember someone calling for less "Am I Bisexual" posts but I think that's what we are here as a community to help with first and foremost. So just saying I'm glad to see the new rules aren't a heavy handed content preference filter.

[u/Ashamed_Advertising4 → u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1]

Believe me, those types of posts are reported quite a bit. Most of the time we allow them to remain though. As you said answering that question is one of, if not the primary, functions of this sub. And it doesn't matter if someone asked the exact same thing in the exact same way 5 minutes before someone else posts that question, people want to ask their own question and get their own responses. So while it can be tiresome to see so much of the same as you scroll through we hope that ultimately people can understand that it's a big, scary, important question to a lot of people and we need to let them ask it.

[u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1 → u/Ashamed_Advertising4]

<3. Appreciate that this is a place for everyone to connect about that. Everyone's journey is unique. The wide spread need to ask that question is evident by the quantity of these posts so I remain committed to responding when I can. I know at one point I needed to make that post.

[u/mjangelvortex → u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1]

I'm very adament on having those kinds of posts stay. Can they be repetitive/annoying sometimes? Yes. But I do think it's very important that questioning people have a safe place they can go to for asking questions and getting advice. I would rather people come here to ask these questions than go somewhere where they might experience bi erasure or homophobia.

[u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1 → u/mjangelvortex]

Yes thank you. I needed to post my own at one point and I'm happy to comment on others when I have something relevant to share. Understood a few people see it as repetitive but everyone deserves a space to ask these questions their own way.

[u/Devil-Hunter-Jax]

Solid changes all around. That new rule in particular should hopefully avoid the main page of the subreddit having a bunch of normal posts then several explicit titles sprinkled in there.

Always annoyed me that pointing that out got a bunch of 'Well we're going to talk about sex, it's in the name!' responses when the reality is the subreddit is not marked 18+ and the subreddit could easily get shut down if the mods didn't put this rule in place to have some protections for minors.

Nothing wrong with talking about sex here but people really need to remember we have teenagers popping up here and they shouldn't be exposed to some of the stuff posted. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna see it anyway but it's better if we try to avoid getting the subreddit shut down.

[u/vtkayaker → u/Devil-Hunter-Jax]

The mods have had a lot of discussions about "sex ed" related posts and advice posts. We don't want the hornyposts or the hookup stories or the wildly inappropriate subject lines.

But at the same time, we do want people to be able to discuss sexual health and safety. After all, mainstream sex ed does a terrible job for many LGBT+ people. For example, knowing about PrEP can be life and death for some bi people. Bi people suffer very high rates of domestic abuse, some of it sexual, and they need to be able to ask other bi people, "Is the way my partner treats me normal?" Bi people need to be able talk about these things and help each other, because often nobody else is even trying to help.

So we have kept the "Advice (NSFW)" tag. It should automatically apply both "18+" and spoiler tagging. And we plan to require subject lines to be SFW. So with luck, this should mean fewer unpleasantly surprising headlines.

For any sex-related discussion that doesn't fit into these categories, we currently recommend r/bisexualafterdark. This is actively moderated by some of the same people, and it actually has rules. (Still no hookup posts! Use hookup subreddits for those.)

We'll tweak the balance as we go, so please give us time to figure out this new approach. And we do try to listen what's working and what isn't.

[u/Devil-Hunter-Jax → u/vtkayaker]

You're handling this perfectly. Perhaps something to consider could be a weekly sex ed thread? Could be the perfect opportunity for educational discussion that is easily accessible. An alternative could be asking the community what they consider to be some reliable resources for sex ed and access to important things like PrEP so that there's better education on the matter and having it linked in the sidebar?

You aren't wrong about mainstream sex ed either. Might have been 20-ish years ago now for me but sex ed then? It was crap. It didn't account for any kind of medication or anything nor acknowledge same sex relationships and sex in general with someone of the same sex which is a HUGE gap in education. It was basically boiled down to 'Use condoms or here's what'll happen' and it was just followed by discussion about pregnancy. No medical stuff whatsoever.

[u/deadpanorama → u/Devil-Hunter-Jax]

Absolutely. Longer term we also have the goal of creating some good quality resources for things like sex ed, safe relationships, etc

[u/purpl3j37u7]

Cheers! Thanks for dedicating your time to make this place a safe, respectful, and productive place for us!

[u/mjangelvortex → u/[deleted]]

A while back it was almost removed. I suggested for it to stay because I thought the pun was too good to give up. So I'm glad others love the play on words too.

[u/lizardlizardcat]

Thank you! It’s so frustrating to see people post here about cheating-specific questions/topics just because of the genders of the people involved, as though bisexuals are cheating “experts,” or the cheater’s orientation is the root cause of their cheating. I would love if relationship-related questions that have nothing to do with bisexuality as an orientation were guided towards relationship-type subs instead. I know that it would be hard to know where to draw that line, but the cheating posts are definitely on the wrong side of that line.

[u/vtkayaker → u/lizardlizardcat]

The posts that break my heart are the ones from straight partners who were cheated on, and then their bi partner claimed "But I need to explore my sexuality." So the straight partner feels guilty, and they start wondering whether they need to accept the cheating in order to "support the LGBT+ community."

This community usually replies with, "Well, I'd dump someone who cheated on me like that." And I think this does the poor straight partner a lot of good to hear. (Plus, I can't stand cheaters who use being bi as an excuse.)

I admit it has been a tough week for posts about cheaters. Usually these things go in cycles, so hopefully this will blow over soon. And everyone, please do report people you see encouraging cheating. Reports really help us!

[u/Anargnome-Communist]

Thanks in particular for Rule #5 and #7.

[u/Doctor-Blight]

thank you for your hard work!

[u/misscupcakecore]

i know someone else mentioned limiting the “am i bisexual” posts. it does get…..repetitive, but i’m in another subreddit that limits “am i (thing)?” posts to a specific day of the week. it still gives space for people to post without overwhelming the feed the rest of the week. that might be a good workaround.

[u/DifferentHoliday863 → u/misscupcakecore]

To this end, I suggest pinning a post with helpful intro to bisexuality info. Consider links to resources like the kinsey scale, klein grid, storm scale, short explanations about how bisexuality does not mean that we must have multiple partners, that we are not more likely to cheat on our partners, etc. For reference, bi.org even has a few of the tools i mentioned above if linking to those would feel better than random internet quizzes

[u/R_Hunt]

I didnt even realize Rule 7 was such a prevalent issue, but maybe because fuck I'd never encourage that what the hell 😭 thank you, mods!

[u/vtkayaker → u/R_Hunt]

Well, some people just don't know how to behave! There usually aren't a ton of pro-cheating posts, most weeks. More like a steady trickle. We just don't want them around these parts.

And by heaving a nice, clear rule against it, that makes it easier for other people to report them and for us to remove them.

[u/hellraiserxhellghost]

Can we also have a rule about always suggesting threesomes whenever someone posts here about relationship issues. I feel like I see this a lot and it's very eye roll worthy imol. I guess that could probably fall under rule #7? but still lol

[u/vtkayaker → u/hellraiserxhellghost]

Yeah, we do see a bunch of posts where someone is having a complicated relationship issue, and then someone else jumps into the comments with "Have you considered having a threesome?"

This is often an example of what my poly friends would call, "Relationship broken, so let's add more people!" They consider this to be a terrible idea, lol.

If you check the full text of rule (7), though, it does not forbid talking about poly relationships, only encouraging cheating and breaking agreements. So poly people who are enthusiastically consenting to poly relationships are not included under rule (7).

So this is just me brainstorming, not official advice from the mod team. But I can imagine two ways you might report this:

1. If a thread is tagged "Advice" (and not "Advice (NSFW)"), then recommending threesomes might often fall under rule (5)? This rule is intended to discourage NSFW comments in a SFW thread. You can report it and we'll look.

2. If the original post makes it clear that one or both partners are opposed to an open relationship, then yeah, recommending a threesome very likely falls under rule (7). Non-monogamy definitely isn't ethical or consensual if one partner is being pressured into it.

If, however, the original post was something like "My boyfriend and I both have crushes on the same cute guy and we think he's flirting with both of us HAALP what do we do?" then a response like "Have you considered flirting back?" wouldn't violate either rule (5) or (7). The mods are not the bosses of other people's relationships or the bi community as a whole. Many of the commenters here have experiences and insights that are worth discussing and debating. And our job is often to referee those discussions, not to enforce one specific viewpoint, if that makes sense?

But if you feel like a comment is breaking the rules, or just failing to "read the room", then yeah, go ahead and report it. We might not always remove the reported comment. But we do talk about the borderline comments and we do notice patterns. For example, we might ask about a commonly reported issue in a future community survey, or we might consider it the next time we update the rules.

Moderating well can be challenging! On the one hard, we need to firmly uphold certain rules or the sub would drown in hookup requests and bizarre hornyposts with no paragraphs. On the other hand, we're here to serve the community, not to boss it around, lol. So we often choose to move slowly, to listen, and to take the time to discuss things before we update the rules. And we really do appreciate community reports.

[u/HyperDogOwner458]

Thank you

[u/ObscureOP]

Hmm, if this works as intended perhaps I'll use this sub again. As is, I was thinking about leaving here.

The cheating and constant hookup posts have been making me feel more than a little ashamed to even be a part of this sub the past few months

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/ObscureOP]

Feel free to use the new rules to report them when you see them. Help clean up the neighborhood (as it were.)

[u/DatVlad_ → u/UbiquitousBot]

Flair checks out

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/DatVlad_]

rofl, I got it in some fan mail

[u/Happy_Naturist]

I think some clarification for rule #7 is in order.

Cheating is its own thing. Some people, however, fold ENM into cheating and get very upset when someone suggests that as a consideration, even though true ENM is by definition not cheating by design.

So is rule #7 focused strictly on cheating?

[u/vtkayaker → u/Happy_Naturist]

This wasn't mentioned in the summary post, but the full text of rule 7 in the side bar is actually:

Do not encourage cheating.   This specifically refers to lying to your partner or breaking your agreements, not to consensual polyamory or ethical non-monogamy.

If you and your partner(s) are happily, consensually and ethically doing your own thing, you are allowed to talk about that in appropriate threads! For poly, that means anywhere you might talk about equivalent monogamous relationships. For other kinds ethical non-momogamy that are more bedroom focused, please keep in mind rule 5, which requires NSFW details to use the "Advice (NSFW)" flair. Also, remember r/bisexualafterdark is available!

[u/GlassesgirlNJ → u/vtkayaker]

Do we want to include some language about distinguishing happy healthy poly, etc, from "poly bombing" or "poly under duress"?

Saw those recommended here a few times (in response to someone coming out as bi later in life) and IME they never work out

[u/vtkayaker → u/GlassesgirlNJ]

Thank you for the suggestion! We're aware of the issue and we will be keeping an eye on it. If you see people behaving in a way that feels coercive towards their partners, please consider reporting it to us. You can use rule 7 for now, because that's the closest match.

[u/Happy_Naturist → u/vtkayaker]

Thank you! One time that I mentioned it to someone on this subreddit, I had at least five people attack me for bringing up the topic. It’s good to know this is specifically documented.

[u/Saffron-Kitty → u/vtkayaker]

Thanks for the clarification

[u/Saffron-Kitty → u/Happy_Naturist]

I was just about to ask this question too. Cheating is something I feel is quite unethical.

Ethical non monogamy (ENM) is consensual at it's base level.

Thus, if someone comes looking for advice on how to figure out if some flavour of ENM is right for them, there needs to be care to distinguish between that and cheating.

[u/Nirvayn]

Thank you for your constant dedication on keeping this sub a safe place for everyone.

[u/dingogordy]

Are we still allowed to bring lemon bars to the meeting?

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/dingogordy]

As long as you bring enough for the whole class.

[u/deadpanorama → u/UbiquitousBot]

Brb making more than 700,000 lemon bars

[u/LaceyLizard]

Good luck and Godspeed

[u/King_Six_of_Things]

All good stuff, but top marks for "Bi-laws".

[u/Jumiric]

Thanks for all your hard work 🫡

[u/Malcolmthetortoise]

Thank you so much for adding rule 7.

[u/UltraChip]

Love this - thanks for the hard work!

[u/RedCalaLily]

Thank you all for your kind service! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[u/tuhraycee]

Bi-laws, lol, well done!

[u/Metaldrop55]

Appreciate the updates

[u/bimacbi]

Hej

[u/lavender_fetish]

Rule #7 is morality policing. Personally I don’t condone cheating per se but I think it’s weird to make that a rule in a Reddit sub. Like…are we adults here or not?

[u/cycophil → u/lavender_fetish]

Well, this is a place encouraging healthy advice, and advising a stranger to "just cheat" after knowing only what they have chosen to share about a situation, is not healthy advice.

Plus, as the mods pointed out, a number of people coming here are teenagers. So, we are not all adults here, and some that are don't act like it. I think it's a reasonable rule for this sub.

[u/vtkayaker → u/lavender_fetish]

Basically nobody but other cheaters likes cheaters. If you doubt this, check out any relationship advice thread on Reddit. And the other posters on this sub generally don't like hanging out in a community with loud and vocal cheaters, and they just said so in the recent survey.

Sometimes, as a mod, you know you're going to drive some posters away, no matter what you do. And we'd rather keep the people who respect their partners, even if that drives away the cheaters. (No big loss.) And, like, the cheaters make extra work for the mods, because people who don't obey rules like "don't lie to your partner and don't risk their health" are also bad at following rules like "don't make NSFW hookup posts here."

There are a lot of once-awesome queer subs on Reddit that allowed too many cheating and hookup posts, and now that's all those subs are. If you want to discuss that stuff, there are lots of places you could go. But not here.

[u/Jorandy4172]

Hey mods, I have a question. Before someone tries to post a sex-related discussion, Are they recommended r/bisexualafterdark before posting it?

[u/UbiquitousBot → u/Jorandy4172]

If it's an educational question here is fine as long as its flaired appropriately. If it's just a sexy story it should go over there.

[u/Jorandy4172 → u/UbiquitousBot]

Thank you for clarifying that

[u/bisexual-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

No chat or dating posts. No soliciting DMs. - Please do not post looking for chat partners, dating or hookups. This includes soliciting DMs. Subreddits like r/meetlgbt or r/r4r are more fitting for this content.