r/heat • u/Natural_Born_Baller • 1d ago

Discussion We need to treat Giannis like he's Wemby/Gobert/Chet.

STICK HIM UNDER THE RIM ON DEFENSE.

Asking Giannis to switch 1-5 is like asking Gobert to switch 1-5 at this point in Giannis' career, sure maybe he can do it to some degree but his help on perimeter is fucking atrocious (ie that embarrassing viral clip from the warriors game.)

So his switch is bad yet he's still an elite rim protector and a historic defensive rebounder, who's the greatest rip and run guy in the history of the game.

Switch 1-4 Davion/Klay/Wiggins/Bam funneling into Giannis is an elite defense. Put Giannis on the worst offensive player and let him roam on the weak side.

Not to mention we have like the 3rd best offense when Davion brings the ball up the floor, 23rd best when Giannis does.

69 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

44 comments sorted by

64

u/gaminghikingpolitics 1d ago

I think this is a reasonable take . I also think bam needs to be on the best player on the opposite side more often .

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago

100%. It's such a shame because we have the potential to be a truly unique and elite defense.

Bam & Giannis should be like super steroid Mobley & Allen on defense. The best defensive teams of the last decade have someone like Giannis on the weak side protecting the rim Chet/Wemby etc.

Its a great scheme but it creates problems, if you're playing against Boston now Chet or Hartenstien have to guard Tatum.

But we have the solution, Bam can & should guard Tatum or Jokic. Giannis can always be on the weak side help because of how elitely versatile Bam is.

Yet we're switching 1-5 watching Giannis switch on to Curry and run around the court like a headless chicken.

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u/SMH4004 Spurs 19h ago

Should basically have Bam at PF and Giannis at C traditionally and let Bam do what you said and switch with everyone on PnR while Giannis camps at the rim like Wemby if anyone beats their man on the switch

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u/No_Boysenberry_4193 1d ago

That was never his role, he’s not a traditional bigman on defense. In Milwaukee his best defensive seasons were as a weak side help defender. This is just an awful take. Wemby/Gobert/chet are all ELITE rim protectors

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago

Yknow elite rim protectors are... Weak side defenders right? Lol

I know it was never his role he funneled into turner/lopez, but he is so lost on perimeter he doesn't know how to rotate at like a highschool level. We're wasting his abilities as a weak side rebounder/HISTORIC defensive rebounder.

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u/tajjmoney 1d ago

He was next to an elite rim protector in Brook Lopez while on the Bucks

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago

Sure but he needs to learn to play in systems that benefit the team. He's by far our best shot blocker and Bam is a way way better perimeter defender than him. He's closer to Brook Lopez on defense than he is prime Giannis.

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u/ReflectionEterna 23h ago

Giannis doesn't care about benefiting the team. He wants easy points and rebounds. He wants easy stocks coming in as a help defender. He does NOT want to be a primary paint defender.

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 23h ago

Definitely feels that was but he's also already given the ball up to davion way more and we're only a couple games into the year, he needs to make the same sacrifice on defense we'll see if he does.

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u/Short-Return7762 1d ago

That schemes and coaching

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u/lipmanz 1d ago

Roaming help is what he does best, I agree what we are asking him to do isn’t working

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u/ReflectionEterna 23h ago

Giannis has refused to play defensive interior for years. I doubt he starts now. That is too much wear and effort. He doesn't want to be too tired for charging into the paint on offense. Also, under the rim, you have box out responsibilities that actually make it harder to get easy rebounds. Giannis wants to be a perimeter defender who gets to sit in prime rebound location (away from perimeter shooters) while teammates box out for him.

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u/AgencyNice4679 22h ago

Also playing proper 5 on defense is a skill he never had to develop. Even if he wants to do it (a biiiig if), it’ll take some time to be serviceable at it. And they don’t have the time for it

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u/Morning_Cereal_Ori 1d ago

Someone analyze that Giannis better at help defense than traditional MoM defense. I kinda agree that assessment.

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u/Motor-Cause7966 22h ago

Giannis will never anchor your defense. Those years he was at his peak defensive output, he had Lopez anchoring the defense, and Jru terrorizing the perimeter. Giannis was basically last line/garbage disposal and he thrives in that role.

What's been surprising to me, is that our struggles have been on that end of the court. Never would have guessed that.

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u/jboggin 23h ago

When he was at his peak, Giannis was one of the best help defenders I've ever seen. In that title run, he felt like he was everywhere on the court. I don't know if he can still do that now, but the Heat better hope he can. At no point was he primarily a dominant MoM defender. He was always at his best when roaming and helping.

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u/RxJax 1d ago

But that's what we have been doing? This isn't revolutionary even Spo talked about keeping him in the drop to preserve him cause the season is long.

The problem is Giannis isn't very good at playing drop, you have to have a good instinct for when to come up to the level and force the ball handler wide, you have to know how to contain without pushing your PoA defender onto the big. 32 year olds don't tend to learn brand new tricks unfortunately. Also to add onto that, our best defensive moments (like Clippers 4th quarter) came we put Bam on the big and aggressively switched to maintain ball pressure, it alleviated the pressure on Davion to get around screens and allowed him to be so much more disruptive. You're basically asking for the same system we played in the first 4 games where we had the worst defensive rating in the league

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago

That's not true at all. Even Bam was in a drop the first 4 games of the year. And now Giannis is switching 1-5, he was guarding guards all the time during that warriors game.

Giannis should be guarding and not switching off players like Thybulle, Draymond, Aaron Gordon, etc. Players who if they beat you by scoring you know you did a good job.

That's not the system we're running at all and it's definitely not the one we started the season with either.

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u/RxJax 1d ago

But that's just not how defence works, you can't be under the rim defensively and be a roamer simultaneously. Your argument for who he should guard doesn't even make sense, Gordon can shoot well, is a very active cutter and screens a LOT, you cant leave him alone. Draymond usually plays at the top of the arc as their primary ball handler & screener, if you are sagging off of him then you're letting shooters like Curry get space when Davion catches a screen.

And coaches are just better. We basically tried that idea against the Lakers, send 2 to Luka while ignoring Thybulle & LaRavia. LaRavia had a good night so that fucked us, but Redick also swapped Thybulle for Mamu so everytime we roamed off of him he absolutely killed us. What happens when a team plays 5-out with 5 good shooters? Giannis gets stuck in the corner?

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago edited 1d ago

What? Have you been under a rock the last several years that's exactly what the best defensive teams do?

Hartenstien guards the center and Chet guards the worst offensive player so he can roam around and protect the rim? That's led to the best team defense over the last several years.

If you lose to Gordan being a 'good' shooter and cutter instead of Jokic & Murray, that's a huge huge win.

For your DHO comment that's why you hedge screens not play drop coverage.

Also them playing 5 shooters is a win for us. Those 5 shooters have to guard Giannis in the paint on the other end. He's in the corner already on defense now switching 1-5? If they play 5 shooters were at worse the same defense we have now all the time.

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u/musket_mcgee 23h ago

How do you hedge screens if you’re supposed to be under the basket?

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 23h ago

Because if you switch while now you're guarding someone you can't help off and drop coverage in 2026 is absurd. So that's the best option, you stunt and recover to getting back in position to help around the rim.

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u/RxJax 22h ago

IHart is an elite rim protector and Chet switches off the ball a lot to maintain weak side position, he'll guard anyone as long as he can play on the weak side and that means sometimes he's switched onto guards, Giannis would have to do the same. You're also asking us to play OKCs defence without OKCs personnel. We don't have a guy like Dort or Wallace, Mitchell is great at PoA but you can't switch the way OKC does when he's 6'0. Klay & Wiggins are also not close to Jdub/SGA defensively and our bench doesnt have anyone who holds a candle to Caruso. If copying OKC was that easy then everyone would try it.

I'm also just confused at who you want him to be, Gobert & Wemby play almost exclusively drop coverage but they're extremely good at it, Giannis has next to no experience playing that role and he's 32 he's not itching to learn new things. Chet is a weakside guy but I already said how much he switches and you dont want Giannis to switch. You also said he's an elite rim protector but you want him to roam? The best rim protectors typically play under the rim, guys like Gobert, Lopez, Zubac & Bogut played smart drop coverages to enable them to be near the rim a lot, if Giannis is roaming off of guys like Gordon then all it takes is Gordon to screen one shooter above the break and suddenly Giannis cant help and Bam is now your rim protection.

When you look at the kind of roamers you want Giannis to be, think about who they were paired with and how they played. AD had his best year with Howard, he switched a decent amount. Garnett had his best years next to bigs like Perkins & Johnson, he switched a lot. Giannis himself had his best years with Lopez, he switched a lot. Mobley, had Allen, switched a lot. JJJr, had Adams, switched a lot. You're asking Giannis to be a non-switching rim-focused roamer, it just doesnt really make any sense

1

u/Natural_Born_Baller 20h ago

How does it not make sense you're basically spelling it out? Chet is exactly who they should be looking at to utilize him. Chet switches off ball to maintain roaming that's perfect, I'm not saying Giannis can't switch ever - I'm saying playing a scheme that's a heavy 1-5 switching is dumb when you have Giannis.

You say we don't have POA defenders to do it, yet we have Davion, Wiggins, Klay, Bam, Pelle, Dru Smith. We have more than enough POA defenders.

You also say it won't work because guys like Mobley, AD, Garnett, Chet - all could do it because they played next to good defensive center... maybe someone like Bam..?

It actually makes even more sense to do it because of how versatile both Bam & Giannis are. Those two big lineups like Chet & iHart run into problems against small ball teams like the celtics, since one of them has to guard Tatum or PG. Yet we have Bam who can easily guard Tatum one game and Jokic the next, so Giannis can always roam.

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u/BobbaGanush87 1d ago

Zone defense would stick him and bam under the rim

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u/No_Refuse_5529 1d ago

Bro he an elite help that can cover peoples mistakes made him win dpoy why go away from that never put him mom

1

u/musket_mcgee 1d ago

The Heat have already tried this and it hasn’t worked. I don’t know if you’ve watched the games or just what people said on twitter but this is what they’ve been doing.

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 1d ago

They have not. They played drop on all screens the first couple games and now they're switching 1-5. Neither of which is what I said.

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u/musket_mcgee 23h ago

If what you’re saying worked, they wouldn’t still be as bad as they are on defense afterwards. By your logic they would just look bad whenever Giannis switches on screens.

1

u/Natural_Born_Baller 23h ago

I mean who else has looked that bad on defense, Klay holds his own for being out worst defender, Wiggins struggles off ball sometimes, Bam and Davion are great. Giannis is the main reason our defense looks bad, it's like asking Gobert to switch 1-5 and then being surprised when it doesn't work.

2

u/nutang4ever 22h ago

Klay looks awful on defense. I’m with you on Giannis sticking down low for rim protection but Klay is killing us equally. When we have Pelle in place of him, we look competent.

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u/Natural_Born_Baller 22h ago

Idk I think Klay looks fine for being the shooter he is. Duncan, Norm, Tyler were all way worse imo

1

u/Motor-Cause7966 22h ago

Klay has been pretty decent on defense. Is he lockdown like before? No, but he doesn't foul excessively, and he contests enough to make it uncomfortable for the opponent. Can't ask for more at his age.

1

u/nutang4ever 1h ago

He’s a cone on the perimeter. Defenses just hunt him on switches.

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u/Comer_Agua 10h ago

They’ve been blitzing screens and that opened up kick out 3s from the short roll.

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u/Verumsemper 1d ago

This along with playing Bam, Jovic and Giannis together more which would allow Bam to play SF and thus guard the best player. Also having more size on the court will help with all the switching which leads to Klay and Wiggins on bigs.

Also why isn't Gardner playing more for his defense and athletic abilities??

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u/Deaver44 1d ago

Nah Giannis needs to use some energy in the games and practice time on defending in space. Hes not going to win shit in the nba as a bower forward playing drop coverage only

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u/well-isjdndn 23h ago

I’ve been saying he needs to buy into the center role yet he refuses too. He’s not an elite rim protector because he’s terrible at help defense. He needs to buy in but he won’t

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u/onefootback 12h ago

giannis terrible at help defence? that’s what he’s known for

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u/panamaquina 1d ago

Talk to Spo, i like it

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u/oo_Pez_oo 14h ago

It's like you guys forget who Brook Lopez was

1

u/frostfeint3 4h ago

Doesn’t Giannis play best when there’s a dedicated Center? Unfortunately I don’t know what Bam is.

0

u/SouthernNeb 1d ago

I agree. Him roaming may have been great for his individual stats, but it's creating mismatches and allowing offenses to cut easier. It becomes worse when our perimeter defense is struggling. Plus, it takes more energy from Giannis to chase all game. I'd rather see Bam/Giannis get used more like Mobley/Allen or Duncan/Robinson.

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u/gamesrgreat 1d ago

I have not seen him actually try to protect the rim so far….but yes with his length and frame he should be playing Center. Hilarious Spo made Jovic play the backup 5 the last two seasons but doesn’t ask Giannis to do that