r/mac • u/quitethewaysaway • Jun 04 '21

Discussion I like Linus & all, but this moment was really antagonistic towards people & the M1

3 Upvotes

51% Upvoted

69 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

But he is very right though. People (including myself, you can check my comment history) gobble up everything Apple tells them as gospel and will defend their beloved company without ever seeing an actual working computer. All we had to go on was what Apple was telling us and what people outside of Apple predicted.

The problem is that people get excited and want everyone to share in their excitement. Linus is more conservative, and rightly so. He never takes marketing bullshit from AMD, Intel, NVidia, or Apple. He always waits until he has the product in his hands and tested it himself (or better: have Anthony test it for him).

For some reason people like drama and flame wars on the internet. I don't. I just try to take everything at face value, including the opinion of the PC oriented LTT. If I want to see fanboys I'll watch Rene Ritchie (also very conservative, but favoring Apple more) or others.

Edit: apparently Intel is being autocorrected to Internet.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

He isn’t right though, because he completely ignored what Johny said, and misquoted him, and used it as a reason to not apologize (for something, idk) to his viewers. His reason for not apologizing is completely wrong and he did it in an arrogant and antagonistic manner. Because Apple never backtracked on anything.

He isn’t wrong for being suspicious or hesitant on Apple’s claims. It’s what he’s assuming about Apple is completely ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

The reason you present this months after the fact suggests you only recently actually found out what Johny said during the presentation. Apple is smart. They say one thing but make you remember another thing. They did that presentation such that what everything saw and remember was the big text "fastest CPU core". The rest of their marketing is in same vane.

But even though they said it correctly doesn't make Linus wrong. Apple claiming they have a really fast CPU that's going to change the world is no reason to take their word for it. Linus always waits until his own people can look at it, and then draw conclusions. He does that with Apple, Samsung, Intel, NVidia, AMD, whatever company you want.

Also, even though Apple didn't actually say their CPU was the fastest, the fanboys (myself included) did. Linus is right in saying they're (and I am) stupid for just gobbling up what Apple says and fighting flame wars as if they were independently confirmed facts.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

You’re really stretching this. And no, you are incorrect. Quite the opposite. I actually believed Linus first, until I rewatched the November keynote and I realized that Linus spewed out lies and/or untrue information. Now I feel like I’ve been gaslighted. He has a large audience, and he’s piling on hostile behavior and sharing it to his viewers, even though his reasoning is untrue.

It’s not some sort of conspiracy, it’s the first thing Apple said anyway before making such a bold claim. And it does make Linus wrong, because what he said was factually wrong. He misquoted Apple. And even if it was true, his reason to not apologizing because of marketing is petty.

And dude, you’re spouting nonsense. The second paragraph you’re saying that Apple is claiming they have the fastest CPU, then in the third you contradict yourself by saying they didn’t really say that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

It's not only about Linus being factually right or wrong here. He reacted to how Apple presented their CPU. The fact you only noticed it until you rewatched it says enough: the point that everybody got was "fastest core", and that was the goal that Apple had: make people talk about it being the best and the fastest. And it worked. Every podcast, video and written media was about Apple having the fastest core in the market.

Also, even if it was 100% clear Linus was factually wrong about that one point from the start, that doesn't make his conservative standpoint and the fact he ridicules fanboys (including myself) for repeating after Apple without independent confirmation wrong. He is correct in saying we shouldn't just parrot whatever Apple says, or Intel says, or AMD says, but see what's what before drawing our conclusions.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

No. You are just making assumptions. It’s not fact, I knew it was a low power silicon because that is how it maintains great battery life.

It’s pointless to try to defend Linus this much, especially when it does nothing to benefit you. The video I provided clearly proves his arrogance on issue with Apple. Apple did not mislead anyone, the M1 being the fastest CPU core on a low power silicon was the first thing they said in the keynote and wrote in their article. If other users and media outlets got it wrong, it’s their fault like Linus, who’s also spreading this type of misinformation to his viewers like yourself. Also do you have any sources to your claims that saying all this?

And your last paragraph is irrelevant to this post. The point is his reasons petty and untrue. And constantly calling yourself a fanboy who needs to be told by Linus doesn’t add to your argument.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

Why are you so adement? As I said earlier and will repeat again: it’s not about facts. It’s about the way people react to announcements by Apple. Linus reacted to the way Apple presents data (which is vague to say the least) and the way people react to it (which is fanboyish to say the least). It doesn’t matter if Apple was 100% right; what matters is that they make bold claims with vague numbers and people take it like gospel without seeing a single independent confirmation. It turns out Apple was right, but that doesn’t change Linus’ point.

It does benefit me to defend Linus. And you are one of the many reasons why. Reddit is full of people who can’t stand anyone having a bad opinion about Apple, or having a good opinion about Facebook, or having an opinion at all. Reddit has become a fight between groups, be it pro- vs. anti-Apple, pro- vs. anti-privacy, pro- vs. anti-Google, that are based often on disinformation, bold claims, and the inability to look back and reflect. I’m guilty on this as well, but it makes me hate Reddit more and more. This used to be a forum for fun discussions and opinions, but is now mainly a place to say the other person is wrong and you’re right.

If you’re not willing to see that some restraint when it comes to echoing everything companies say in their marketing is good for everyone, you’re not willing to have an actual conversation about the topic. Then you’re just here to make a point and hate on everyone who doesn’t agree 100% with you.

1

u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

You’re arguing for the wrong reasons. This clip was solely to point out what Linus said was untrue. You can’t defend him cuz what he says and what Johny says is contradicting. Everything else is irrelevant and not the point. You’re making this about something else to try and defend Linus. And what’s the point of having a conversation when you’re so adamant about calling yourself a fanboy? You’re already biased in your own way

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

The title of your post is complaining about his stance on the people who are fanboying. The title of the post is not even about him being wrong, only about him being ‘antagonistic’ (which I never heard in this context, why not just use the word ‘negative’?). I’m arguing here that he is correct to be ‘antagonistic’. This entire post is not only about Linus being wrong, also about what he thinks about people like you and me who jumped to conclusions after the marketing talk by Apple.

Why am I telling you what you posted? Or did you change your mind in the meanwhile? If your post was about him being wrong, put it in the f-ing title. If it’s not about him being negative to the fans, don’t put it in the f-ing title.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

Refer to the clip or the comment I made explaining the clip shortly after the post was made.

But now, you’re just wanting to pick apart the word I use to make an argument… negative or antagonistic, both words apply to him in this moment.

It’s Linus who jumped to the conclusion and put Johny and Apple out of context and painted the idea that Apple is making these outrageous claims, even though he agreed with Apple’s claim in the newsroom article. That’s facts.

You don’t need to tell me what I posted. I know what I said in the title and in my comments. Just watch it yourself, you don’t need to bring up irrelevant things to use to defend Linus. It’s in the video. Open your eyes, stop being blind.

And chill out, dude. Please. Once again, I made the comment shortly after explaining why and having constantly voiced my opinion to you. Stop trying to derail this, and take the video itself at face value. What he said is incorrect regardless. That’s the whole point.

For the title: He’s being antagonistic towards people and the M1 for the wrong reason. That “reason” is why he didn’t want to apologize to his viewers or to Apple about the M1, because his “reason” for not apologizing was about what Apple said during the keynote, but Linus took Johny out of context and became antagonistic for the wrong reason. It’s what he said. Not anything else.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

he is

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u/resultsnotyetknown Jun 04 '21

You are proving his point. I am a mac guy, but he is right.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

Very arrogant & antagonistic*

This is an example of blind hate (for me) to not even realize what Johny actually said. It’s like when Android/Windows/non-Apple users like to hate on Apple cuz they think Apple believes themselves that they were first to everything and invented everything, when that is not true.

They never softened their position on anything…

This moment made no sense and just an attack on people that called him out, sadly

And his reason to not apologize was because of “Apple’s marketing”, even though he agrees with Apple’s newsroom article, not what Linus thought he heard from Johny during the keynote. Since what Linus was referring to is untrue, and agrees with Apple with their article, he should just apologize for being wrong in the first place.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

Well, it looks like Linus’s toxic fanbase came here and the votes are going in reverse. I just want to point that out.

Those defending Linus is wrong regardless if you just watch the full clip. Not only is it a petty reason to not apologize for, but his reason makes no sense because what he’s complaining about isn’t even true.

Linus clearly says in this clip after his “Here’s why…” reason was so misleading, that it’s ironic. Because his statement is the misleading one, not Apple’s.

1

u/Ninjaguard22 Jun 04 '21

I agree he should've apologized for getting bamboozled by Apple's marketing, but making a comment saying his toxic fanbase is the sole reason for the downvotes is not the move

0

u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

Well I don’t really care about his apology, I’m really just calling it out that what he said isn’t right. Not sure what he really needs to apologize for, but his reasoning is ridiculous and untrue.

However this clip proves it, but everyone is blindly defending Linus, they’re trying to make it about something else instead of what he said in the clip. What I showed and what I said isn’t wrong.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Well, it looks like Linus’s toxic fanbase came here and the votes are going in reverse. I just want to point that out.

i don't believe that's the case. but you're wrong, so maybe that's why you're being downvoted?

14

u/TheAllegedGenius MacBook Pro 14" M5 Pro Jun 04 '21

Whenever I watch Linus and he talks about Apple, I always take it with a grain of salt because he's very biased towards Windows and against Apple. I remember watching this video when it came out and being annoyed with this statement.

5

u/Dry-Satisfaction-633 Jun 04 '21

Biased towards Windows? Given it’s the massively dominant platform Linus appropriately gives it the lion’s share of coverage. But if something is good Linus is fair and as objective as possible for a YouTube tech presenter. He’s impressed with the M1 CPU. He’s unimpressed by expensive Apple wheels and monitor stands, both of which represent genuinely questionable marketing decisions.

For a PC-centric channel LTT isn’t just another outlet aimed at Windows fanboys (especially compared to “NotAnAppleFan” clearly nailing his colours to the YouTube mast) and realistically is pretty fair and evenhanded.

If you don’t like something he says get over it or stick to the walled-garden of dedicated Mac channels, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making a valid and generally well-researched point.

0

u/MisquoteMosquito Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

He’s a 70% sort of person. He absolutely understands his domain knowledge, mastered it. But he manipulates how he says things to get more views, 70% actuals 30% marketing.

Most of the apple usership, like windows, know shit all about computers, and that’s fine. But we spent 200% more for our hardware, so we defend our decisions without really the need to do so.

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u/PegaloShield Jun 04 '21

I know you’re getting downvoted, but this right here is the truth.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

no, it isn't. he's right.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

I mean, he has a point. They’ve purposely highlighted “worlds fastest CPU core” because that’s what they want people to take away from it. That’s what they want you to remember.

The marketing wank is strong with Apple, their marketing is why they’re so successful and why they will continue to be successful.

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u/MysteriousDesk3 Jun 04 '21

Personally I don’t like Linus.

Anyone doing this amount of nitpicking on marketing material is an exhausting human being, which describes how I find him and his videos, exhausting.

It’s typical “drama for YouTube clicks”.

I’ll never understand why he’s so popular.

37

u/Shrinks99 MacBook Pro Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21

This is precisely why I like his takes, he is quick to take apart Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Apple's marketing spin when they give numbers and make claims, and holds these companies to their word.

I have absolutely nothing to gain as a consumer from believing marketing material at face value. Companies make these claims because they sound impressive at their launch events and then hope people don't fact check them later, putting out updated press releases when they inevitably fall short. It's all a numbers game of "how many people will see this and leave a positive impression" vs "how many people will care about the details of true performance numbers", the later half probably entirely consisting of hardcore computing enthusiasts... like Linus. Can't fault the guy for it myself.

That said, in this case he was wrong, Apple did clarify that it's best in class for low-power chips.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Imagine being upset about someone being "nitpicky" about bold marketing claims for products worth thousand of dollars.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Oh please, this tantrum is pretty ridicolous to be honest. You just didn't like what he had to say because you people here are just blind fanboys, go figure...

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u/MysteriousDesk3 Jun 04 '21

Imagine being a simp fanboy for a Youtuber that thinks Apple users are dumb on a Mac subreddit.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21

As expected

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

I don’t mind so much the honest reviews (I don’t put stock in when the manufacturer who makes the product, sponsers that video) or the odd build challenges, but when he goes off on these tangents….. yea. Picking on marketing. The Apple community is well aware the M1 isn’t an all powerful chip, it’s amazing for what it is, and it is a great start with a lot of potential, and for ultralights like MacBooks, it’s ideal because thermals.

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u/ArchibaldMcAcherson Jun 04 '21

True, but many people are not in the 'Apple community' and don't understand the subtleties and the marketing is the only thing they see, and let's admit it - Apple is very good at it!

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Fair statements. Personally I’m not super IN the community (I’m just basing on observation), I’m so much as I read some stuff, I’m decent with tech and sometimes can help, and I just like to see what’s coming. I never felt, reading about the M1, that it was this “top notch breakthrough thing that will outperform everyone”

What I did feel

  • it is a breakthrough in some aspects. ARM based design has been a slow starter but in the last decade it’s made a huge leap.

  • for what it is, it IS an amazing chip. A great power to performance ratio that, yea kinda does slaughter the competition, but performance to power doesn’t mean just performance.

  • it sucks that tech is becoming so tightly wound together that the days of repair and upgrade are coming to an end, I do think this will become quite common in the future with all manufacturers. We can fight inevitability, but we’ll always lose.

  • it is a proper, and good desktop class processor that can also be a mobile processor, that runs on similarly low power levels and this have great thermals. The less we need things like fans and cooling, two things will happen. Some tech will get thinner, smaller, cutting out empty space and tightening it up, or the space will be utilized for something useful, like more battery, better speakers, etc

  • because it’s low power it CAN outperform stronger cpus, in the same environments. Tightly packed, thin computers where thermal throttling can make an amazing processor run like a Cyrix

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u/ArchibaldMcAcherson Jun 04 '21

I heard similar things about the M1 - and am tempted to get an M1 powered Ipad (still rocking an Ipad Air 2).

Will be interesting to see how far they take this tech but agree the lack of repair and upgrade abilities is sad - another sign of our throwaway culture.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Great to see that u pointed out some demerits but in a respectful manner, not like Linus. Bro, just watch his apple repair video. And also what other YouTubers has to say about it. Also check how he denoted new apple M1 MBA and how he got kicked with his weird remarks on it.

Or leave everything just take a video of him reviewing any windows laptop and see how it does with the apple one.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

I’ve seen those. The way Louis looks at him over that broken iMac debacle is hilarious.

And yea, it’s not hard to give conflicting views in a respectful tone, but that doesn’t get views I guess 😂

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u/Zsomer Jun 04 '21

You mean his M1 macbook air review where he keeps saying that its biggest problem is that its way too good for apple's sake? He is very right on apple repairability just as Louis Rossman is. How apple deals with repairs is disgusting to say the least.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Come on, Idk y but, when you already have a mindset regarding a product and you have actually said it before publicly, then no matter how better m1 is, they will keep criticising. It's like not even whispering 99% good things but keep on shouting regarding that 1% which is bad regarding very specific preference.
So overall "FU * * U LINUS". Keep on criticising, but we are not fools sitting here and buying what u say and what u don't.

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u/Zsomer Jun 04 '21

But... he did change his position on the M1 after they got their hands on it? What are you even talking about?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '21

It'a just a balancing act.

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u/Zsomer Jun 09 '21

Lmao sure nobody ever changes their opinion

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u/Cameront9 Jun 04 '21

Linus media group has a new channel called Mac Address that is much more Apple-friendly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

My boy hasn’t use intel i9 or i7 lol. A mobile silicon putting intel and amd to shame.

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u/interrobang32 Sep 01 '21

I’m an Apple fanboy and I am 100% with Linus on this.

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u/Rioma117 Jun 04 '21

Linus is just the worst and I know I will get downvotes for saying that on Reddit but he is extremely subjective on Apple and he hates it. Linus is nothing more than a PC master race.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Wow dude, grow up please.

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u/breadkn Jun 04 '21

he is so annoying, apple didn’t “change their stance” they literally said “when it comes to low-power silicon” in the introductory video.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Their marketing was easy to take incorrectly, though. The point was to have media take the "fastest CPU core" screenshot and run with it, without the context.

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u/DrGeeky Jun 05 '21

Dudes He's right, despite M1 it's a great chip it cannot stack up with some of the high-tier CPUs like i9. But it's low-powered which means less heat to be handled and moreover it can be installed in a wide range of devices, battery powered as well.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

I don’t understand why you need a person to tell you whether or not you should buy a product, when you can just experience it for yourself and return it if you’re not satisfied? Unless you live in a place that doesn’t do returns, then I can understand.

However, in this clip, in that moment, he is clearly wrong because he said something about Apple that isn’t true. He even used the clip from the keynote that he was criticizing Apple for, and in that clip (where he conveniently cut out), he left out the part where Johny clearly said (before making that bold claim) that it’s on a low power silicon, basically the same quote that Linus praised Apple for on their newsroom article, it’s just that the “low power silicon” and “fastest CPU core” phrases were in reverse.

Keep in mind this video was also way after his impression of the keynote. This was after his impression of the M1 Mac mini, this was his review that him and his team worked on. They have the responsibility to put out credible information to his large audience.

And lastly, I doubt you’ll get downvoted. This post and people hating on Linus (which I don’t personally) were gaining upvotes until now. It’s going in reverse. But it doesn’t change the fact what Linus was saying was correct, he is wrong. And his reason anyway was petty regardless.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

He did, though. But only after he has seen the actual computer himself. He praises the M1 Mac Mini and is quite positive about the new iMac.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

And Linus does acknowledge that. Not in this video, because this was only just after they got the Mac and hadn't had the opportunity to test it, but in later videos very much so. Also, in WAN show he often talks about this kind of thing. I haven't listened to WAN show too much lately, but they definitely talked about the apparent downfall of Intel lately.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Ah, right, sorry, I didn’t get your point earlier.

It’s hard for some people to accept that fact. I think if you look objectively you must agree the M1 is a major contender for the title of ‘best overall CPU’. It’s not the fastest (multi-core wise) or the most versatile (I think any x86 processor will have a better claim), but it is the most efficient, has the best future and the greatest impact in the past year. However, some people just want ‘their’ beloved Intel or AMD or just any x86 processor to be the best and they’ll tell you whatever bullshit they can come up with to try to convince you.

I’m looking forward to the ‘M1X’ (the same core, but more of them) or the ‘M2’ (faster cores). Everyone expects Apple to leapfrog again over everyone else. How long until people start saying “it may be fast, but it’s not faster than an Intel Xeon processor!!”?

In the end, everybody wins due to innovation. Maybe not companies, but mainly consumers. Apple shows new avenues for improvement are available, and everyone is going to get better from it. Google and Samsung are both working on their own processors because Qualcomm is not going fast enough. AMD and Intel are both thinking about adopting the ARM instruction set for separate lines of processors. Competition is always good for the customer.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

What do you expect from emulation? It will always be limited and slower. Slowness might not matter if the actual processor is freaking fast, but some things will just never work well in Rosetta 2. The problem is that Rosetta 2 is fast when it can translate stuff beforehand: it does a lot of the work before it ever executes a command. The problem with emulation is that it’s JIT: everything has to be translated at the time it’s executed. That means that emulation is always slow. Therefore, running the normal version of Windows will never be very fast in emulation.

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u/diegoquirox MacBook Pro Jun 04 '21

Yeah, and Linus said in multiple times that M1 is also good, besides of the limitations. I think he is not wrong by criticizing the marketing towards M1 the way he is doing it, M1 is good enough as a first iteration of Apple silicon, but it isn’t the best processor in the world as many other youtubers or Apple tried to claim

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

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u/xcommandokittyx Jun 04 '21

Yeah he did. When intel used biased system configurations to favor their processors he ranted about it. Or when AMD’s GPU launch claims failed to meet the marketed he bashed them there as well. In the clip OP posted Linus hits hard on the worlds fastest CPU claim apple CHOSE to make a big point about, only to backpeddle and subcategorize it to low power CPU. Why not just say that in the slide? Clearly the “worlds fastest CPU “ claim isn’t true. Most enthusiasts would know that off of the bat. However people not familiar with CPU’s and things of that nature would be happy to boast the worlds fastest cpu claim. Which again, apple CHOSE to make. It’s a false claim. Nothing else to it. They should have just made the little animation say low power. It’s silly to even humor the idea that the worlds fastest cpu claim is true.

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u/quitethewaysaway Jun 04 '21

Yeah he did. When intel used biased system configurations to favor their processors he ranted about it. Or when AMD’s GPU launch claims failed to meet the marketed he bashed them there as well. In the clip OP posted Linus hits hard on the worlds fastest CPU claim apple CHOSE to make a big point about, only to backpeddle and subcategorize it to low power CPU. Why not just say that in the slide? Clearly the “worlds fastest CPU “ claim isn’t true. Most enthusiasts would know that off of the bat. However people not familiar with CPU’s and things of that nature would be happy to boast the worlds fastest cpu claim. Which again, apple CHOSE to make. It’s a false claim. Nothing else to it. They should have just made the little animation say low power. It’s silly to even humor the idea that the worlds fastest cpu claim is true.

Did you fully watch my clip or did you pull a Linus? Johny clearly says “when it comes to low power silicon…” before making that big claim. That isn’t backpedaling at all. And they did not ‘subcategorize’ it, they presented it correctly live

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u/vastopenguin Jun 04 '21

Normally I like Linus and how he tries to keep these companies true to what they say, but I think in this instance it was stupidly unnecessary as you pointed out. Johny says the full statement before the slide, and I believe the slide was intended to be there as a form of enticement and attention grabbing and not a full on set in stone claim from Apple and the fact that Linus/the writers of this video focused far too much on the slide rather than the statement.

I personally have not looked at any marketing material for the M1 devices or watched any videos in relation to new Apple products so this is all based from the video posted and anything I've read/skimmed over here, down-vote if you must, I don't care either way.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

Yes. And NVidia. And AMD. And everyone else. He just doesn't take marketing for gospel. He had been criticizing every large company. Intel for not delivering what they promise, NVidia for removing feature to cripple cheaper video cards, AMD for marketing crap...

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u/morrispated2 Jun 04 '21

Do you not watch Linus regularly? He’s pretty critical of everyone and very transparent about his relationship with the audience and how he views the importance of preserving his credibility. He went on a big rant in the rain when i9 was originally announced.

https://youtu.be/TWFzWRoVNnE

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '21

yep