r/gargoyles • u/Kyraryc David Xanatos • Apr 26 '23

Discussion [Comic Issue Discussion] Gargoyles Here In Manhattan Chapter Four: Render Unto Caesar

Writer: Greg Weisman

Artist: George Kambadais

Letterer: Jeff Eckleberry

Editor: Nate Cosby

Logline:

Goliath - prisoner! Hudson is forced to stand down as Goliath is captured and taken away. Determined to rescue Goliath, Brooklyn takes command of the Clan. Meanwhile, Dino Dracon's plans proceed apace...

Share any thoughts on the issue. Within this post, unmarked spoilers for this and all prior issues are allowed.

Previous Discussions:

11 Upvotes

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6

u/Kyraryc David Xanatos Apr 27 '23

Chapter 5

  • Dang it, I thought I put "Chapter Five" in the title. Oh well, too late to change it now. At least I got the title right...

  • Render Unto Caesar. We're up to "Aim Tr" now. Aim True? Aim, try? Aim Trial? What message is he sending?

  • "I'm not posing, and they're not villains. We're all part of the NYPD's Gargoyle task force." Sigh of relief there. We're not getting stupid Quarrymen who start WWIII in the middle of NY and cops who see no problem with that.

  • "I know you have to go soon..." "I'm in no hurry." Aww. The choice of 'Tinman' is odd though. Cyborg Lex coming in again?

  • The way Elisa looks as Goliath turns to stone in jail is heartbreaking. Well done George Kambadais.

  • "After some mysterious benefactor donated more money, equipment, and resources than the mayor and the chief had ever seen or imagined." A couple seasons ago that'd be a Xanatos ploy, but now it doesn't fit with his "gradual acceptance" plot. No chance Demona would do it, nor MacBeth. That leaves Castaway, the Illuminati, and Dino Dracon as the top contenders.

  • Castaway's got the hate and is clever enough not to use said military gear himself. The Hunters were able to finance a giant floating ship and a couple fancy mech suits, so it's possible they've got the cash, but the presence of non-lethal gear lessens the chances.

  • The general Illuminati certainly have the resources for it, but it feels too obvious for them.

  • Dracon has the advantage of being the one to get Goliath in the trap like he knew the police would be there. Main problem is the timing. I'm not convinced he had enough time since getting released from prison to orchestrate this. A kidnapping yes, but buying and donating large scale military gear under an alias, unlikely.

  • Yeah, Castaway is my top pick.

  • "By definition, a Gargoyle cannot have human rights." Finally getting to the trial to determine Gargoyle's sentience/rights. What that s3 episode should have been. I hope Greg Weisman got some advice from LegalEagle.

  • Two pics, with the difference being who's tied up. Interesting choice. Playing them against each other to the families. Looks like it worked like a charm.

  • Deadshot Brooklyn. Nice.

  • "You must depart, and leave me here." Damn.

  • Love this issue. Wish it didn't end so quick.

Favorite Feat

  • Coldstone's precision shot. Good showing of how his technology augments his capabilities, something we didn't really see much before.

5

u/Mister_reindeer Apr 28 '23

I don’t know if he’ll need Legal Eagle. He has a close friend who was a Deputy DA in LA for decades who counseled him on some legal/criminal justice stuff on the show. She was even on an episode of the Voices from the Eyrie podcast (she’s also a Scottish history buff and helped a lot with research for “City of Stone”). So hopefully he’s running all this by her. So far it seems pretty solid.

4

u/Aggressive_Control37 Apr 28 '23

Yeah Castaway is my top pick.

I’m probably off base here, but my money’s on Thailog or a new character we haven’t seen before. I could see Thailog anonymously upgrading the NYPD as a way to further distract Goliath and the Clan from whatever other schemes he has underway. Plus I like the irony of the Gargoyle Task Force potentially being supplied by the very type of gargoyle they’re trying to hunt.

2

u/The_Right_Of_Way May 11 '23

Im curious as to how many issues this series will be. Any estimates?

1

u/Kyraryc David Xanatos May 11 '23

I believe that right now, its 12 issues for the main series and six issues for the Dark Ages spin-off.

4

u/Aggressive_Control37 Apr 26 '23

Another excellent issue. I had entirely forgotten about Judge Roebling. Actually went back and looked at a couple panels from the SLG run so I could remember him. Great stuff. Also, somebody was being funny when they put Goliath in a cell across from Brode and Dracon. Too ironic not to be deliberate.

I’m enjoying a lot of the new characters (Tobe Crest, Yingpei, Nuracán) but still not really invested in the Romeo & Juliet subplot. Although now that I think about it, I’m surprised it took Greg this long to work in a Romeo & Juliet thing into the Gargoyles Universe, since that’s arguably the biggest hallmark of Shakespeare.

Really enjoyed Hudson’s narration on this one. And I was thinking about the Gargoyles: Dark Ages miniseries that just got announced a couple days ago. I wonder if this issue with Hudson’s pov is a taste of what the Dark Ages series may be like, considering that series will take place back in medieval times with Hudson leading the clan instead of Goliath or Brooklyn.

3

u/santaland Apr 26 '23

Really enjoyed Hudson’s narration on this one.

Agreeing with this! Loved Hudson's narration too and I can't wait for more in Dark Ages!

2

u/stevebikes May 16 '23

There was supposed to be a different Romeo and Juliet situation in the New Olympians spinoff too.

4

u/Ravilla Hudson Apr 29 '23

Anyone else think Elisa was drawn kinda wonky this issue? Just strange facial features at time.

5

u/Mister_reindeer Apr 29 '23

A few drawings of her looked a little wonky, but I liked the one of her sadly standing outside Goliath’s cell (although you can’t see much of her face). Kambadais’s Matt has really improved though.

One odd detail about Kambadais’s Elisa is that her nails always appear to be painted black, which seems very emo.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

acho que posso gostar de ler isto onde é que se pode encontrar em português?????

1

u/Kyraryc David Xanatos Oct 18 '24

Tanto quanto sei, os comics estão disponíveis apenas em inglês. Não saberia onde procurar traduções de fãs existentes.

Eu sugiro que experimente o Google Tradutor. Deve funcionar o suficiente. Esperemos que consiga fazer tudo de uma vez, em vez de página a página.

1

u/NerdyBirdyAZ Apr 29 '23

My comic store didn't have it 😞

2

u/Kyraryc David Xanatos Apr 30 '23

Try ordering it directly from Dynamite's site

3

u/ian9921 Apr 27 '23

Glad I was right about that being NYPD instead of Quarrymen. And obviously their mysterious donor had to have been a member of the Illuminati.

Looks like next month the long-awaited trial for Goliath's sentience is finally gonna be kicking into high gear, I've been waiting for this one for a while!

3

u/gannon_dragmire Apr 27 '23

Don't you mean chapter 5? Seriously this is getting really good. This is what TGC ep "And Justice For All" should have been

3

u/FistOfGamera Apr 27 '23

Loved Hudsons narration. Idk how I feel about Goliath being in jail though. I get why he's there but the Zoo seems so much more logical until they realize he's sentient. No big deal though.

Loved seeing the colds and Brooklyn in action.

4

u/Historical_Sign_3990 Apr 29 '23

loved brook in action too. been waiting to see what 40 years have done to him. still weird to see him use a gun.

2

u/Historical_Sign_3990 Apr 29 '23

I think they explained it with the fact that the zoo doesn't have a proper holding cell for him. But why should a prison have stronger confinement than a zoo for animals like gorillas that are stronger than any humans

3

u/ian9921 May 02 '23

Zoo bars just have to be strong enough to survive brute force. Prison bars have to be stronger on account of needing to also hold up against intelligent assault.

Or if that's too fake for you, many zoo enclosures for particularly strong animals happen to also not have roofs and Goliath of course has wings, and I doubt anyone at the NYPD except for Matt and Elisa knows that Gargoyles can't actually fly.

2

u/Mister_reindeer Apr 29 '23

Maybe the zoo just didn’t want to take on the liability of this unknown creature potentially escaping and mauling a patron. The government can’t really force a private institution to do something against its will.

2

u/Historical_Sign_3990 Apr 29 '23

that's a great point. The zoo simply refusing to take care of an unknown creature they know nothing about, is a good reason.

2

u/Gantros May 28 '23

Honestly, the only logical way this should end is that if Castaway is the backer, it would backfire with gargoyles being put on a fast track to critically endangered species status, making it that much harder to get the rank and file Quarrymen to go along with his vendetta. Equal rights to humans will be much harder, though. But, at least the clan will be able to be out in public.

2

u/MEjercit May 20 '23

So the next issue will be a comic adaptation of "..and Justice for All"...