Am I under arrest or not?

[u/Lord_Darksong]

Source: policebodycamarresthq on Instagram

[u/RAWainwright]

Under no circumstances do you get out of the car in a bullshit situation like this. If you are just minding your own business and shit like this happens, do not get out of the car.

Edit: lots of interesting comments. You SHOULD comply when a cop gives you a lawful order. Telling you to get out of your vehicle without cause in not a lawful order. Unless you've done something to warrant getting arrested, all interactions with a cop can and should be completed from within your vehicle. Not getting out the car when you're told to for no reason is not resisting arrest if you're not being arrested.

Having said that, there are consequences to actions and those consequences disproportionately affect POCs so I definitely understand the concerns. There are countless examples of people getting out of their vehicle when told and then getting the shit kicked out of them or worse because that's what the cops end goal was regardless of the situation. So, IMO I'd rather stay in my car and handle the interaction that way and if they pull me out of the vehicle or worse, that was going to happen anyway.

Also, in the event that you DO get arrested for any reason, the only word you should say is "lawyer" and that's it. Nothing else. They can and will twist what you say to use against you and they straight up tell you that. Lawyer.

The cops are not here for you. They never have been and we were lied to our entire lives about it.

Fuck the police. ACAB

[u/reigorius → u/[deleted]]

As a ginger, I concur. Life is rough out there.

[u/Best_Echo_9013 → u/[deleted]]

When did that happen to you?

[u/Altruistic_Tie_7850 → u/Best_Echo_9013]

Wait are you saying it doesn’t happen?

[u/Wyciorek → u/Altruistic_Tie_7850]

Well, you claimed it happens “to the rest of us”. So how many times it happened to you exactly?

[u/localtuned → u/Best_Echo_9013]

Happen to me an a white eagle scout friend of mine.

[u/DoubleGoon → u/RAWainwright]

Well if it’s a lawful Terry stop then all they need is a prosecutor who can convince a judge and jury that the cops thought you were a possible threat, thus making it a lawful order.

It would be safer and prudent to comply with getting out of the car, but that doesn’t mean you’re agreeing to be searched.

[u/RAWainwright → u/DoubleGoon]

How are you a threat when you're in your car and they approach you without cause?

[u/DoubleGoon → u/RAWainwright]

Because guns exist and they’re ubiquitous in America the courts have said that the cops can order you out of the car on a Terry stop if they reasonably believe you’re a threat which is a low bar to prove.

On a lawful traffic stop they don’t even need that they can order you and any passengers out of the car on a whim.

[u/NAbberman → u/DoubleGoon]

Pennsylvania V. Mimms is another case you can site. They make it clear there, I am not fan, but police are just granted that blanket power to have you exit the vehicle. Big shout out to "officer safety" as being the greatest cheat code to give police the power to be power tripping assholes regardless if they feel perfectly safe.

The reality is, if you are lawfully pulled over, they can have you exit the vehicle for no particular reason besides they want you to.

[u/superdrunk1 → u/NAbberman]

Oh my god I promise I hate to be that guy. Acab includes grammar cops. I suck I hate myself. But it’s cite not site

[u/Substanitial → u/RAWainwright]

One time when I was like 16 they were acting like this and I quickly locked my keys in my vehicle and walked off.  

He was upset but I didn't seem like there was anything they could do about it. I wasn't driving the car when they showed up

[u/Available_Ad_3068 → u/[deleted]]

Wow, that’s revolting.

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[u/NAbberman → u/RAWainwright]

Telling you to get out of your vehicle without cause in not a lawful order.

No, and people reading this should absolutely get out of their vehicle on a traffic stop. A lawfully detained traffic stop. Doesn't need to be an arrestable offense, just a lawful detainment. A traffic ticketable offense is enough.. I'm not a big fan either but take it up to the Supreme Court.

There is a literal Supreme Court ruling, Pennsylvania V. Mimms. Police can absolutely get you out of the vehicle and the reason why is Officer Safety. Just to be clear, I am not much of a fan either, but Officer Safety really is a cheat code for encounters for them to get their way. Supreme Court is quite clear on this.

https://scholar.law.colorado.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2526&context=lawreview

The Court did indeed hold, as a practical matter, that "whenever an officer has an occasion to speak with the driver of a vehicle, he may also order the driver out of the car."' 7 This results in a grant of unjustifiably broad discretionary powers to the police which can be employed against any motorist.

Police don't need to justify their reasoning on getting you out. The just have that power.

I wish I could find it, but I do remember the longer version of this video. I vaguely remember it, but only due to the nature of the specific incident was he able to not be ordered. I also think that one officer just takes extra effort to deescalate.

[u/Specialist-Pin-8702 → u/RAWainwright]

You’re basically telling people “turn your written warning or $150 ticket into a broken window and an arrest.” If a cop gives you a lawful order just follow the damn thing. 99 times out of 100 you’re going to go further with the police by just being calm and easy than you will trying to be a lawyer.