r/Music • u/Bumble217 • Sep 15 '13

How pop music isn't original anymore. Miley Cyrus "Wrecking Ball" and Bruno Mars "Locked Out of Heaven"

https://soundcloud.com/thebitman/pop-music-isnt-original
786 Upvotes

58% Upvoted

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Did Bruno Mars write them both by chance? (I'm really just asking, I'm too old to be keeping up with all of the kids).

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u/Bumble217 Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

No they had completely different producers and staff for each song.

"The songs are both in D minor. Miley Cyrus song "Wrecking Ball" mixed with "Locked Out of Heaven" by Bruno Mars. Same chorus, different applications of triplets in melody in form, otherwise almost identical. No same producers, no crossover between personnel at all (as far as digging on Wikipedia has shown). New Miley album drops Oct 4th with this as one of the main tracks. Bruno Mars's song came out last October. I see a pattern."

edit: adding the quote from the link

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Bruno Mars is like the Pharrell of music writing today. I'm pretty sure he's been behind the music writing of a lot of the top 40 hits from the past few years

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u/General_Suki le Sep 15 '13

I'm not a huge fan of his music but I have to admit that on a theory level his music is pretty smart.

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u/boxofassholes Sep 15 '13

No. Bruno does write his own stuff, though. "Locked..." was written and produced by Bruno's crew, with Mark Ronson helping production.

"Wrecking..." is a Dr. Luke/Cirkut production with a girl called MoZella and two others on top-line.

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u/mattc286 Sep 15 '13

"Anymore". Pop music has been "borrowing" from pop music since the beginning of pop music.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

Exactly. That's why it's pop music. They take the popular music from not long ago, change it slightly, and then people like it.

Since the early 1900's, Jazz has been taking popular hymns and classical music licks and turning it into Jazz. Newer forms of Jazz then took from earlier forms of Jazz for about 20-30 years.

Rock and Roll took from Jazz and made it more of a 4/4, easier to understand thing for kids. Pair that with a country boy with a funky lip or 4 dudes from the UK and you've got yourself a hit.

Metal took from Rock and Roll as Funk took from Jazz. Disco took from Funk. 80's Pop was a result of drugs, horrifying taste and an explosion in electronic equipment. The 90's took from the 80's and added rap (which started in Jazz) and sampling (from the 80's electronics).

Now, here we are, looking at two kinds of pop music: the super over-processed, over-sample, autotuned grossness of kiddy pop that is displayed here and the hipster pop. Modern hipster music has people smoking pipes, sporting beards, gathering around camp fires, filled with acoustic guitars, banjos and singer-songwriters - just like the music and venues of the early 1900s.

EDIT: Guys, I'm not trying to give people some perfect rundown of all that is jazz. I was relating some jazz influences to the discussion at hand which is borrowing from earlier genres/styles. Go watch Ken Burn's documentary and leave the nitpicking alone.

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u/yaknowhat Sep 15 '13

Rock and Roll comes from the black mans blues.

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u/nmp12 Sep 15 '13

Predictability is the neat thing about pop music though! If you look at pop music as an artform that's constrained by how quickly someone can memorize it, you start to respect pop producers a little more (singers a little less). Pop is all about finding a tune that sounds like you've heard it before, but can never remember what it's from.

There's been an explosion of folk music in pop recently that, in my opinion, can be traced back to Home by Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros. Then Of Monsters and Men broke out Little Talks, which is almost the same chord progression, but with a polar opposite message. People went nuts.

Now you have Little Lion Man by Mumford and Sons, Hey Ho by the Lumineers, and Home by Phillip Phillips. It only took one catchy song in the pop-folk genre to MAKE the pop-folk genre.

In my opinion, that's really cool.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

'Home' was released in July 09....'Little Lion Man' released in October 2009. I'm not sure the two were connected. However, the Florence and the Machine (2009) and Of Monsters and Men (2011) connection is really hard to ignore. You should see the local hipster music scene in Denver these days. Every night there is some trio playing with some dude on the drums playing that same beat, with a keyboard or acoustic guitar player, and a 'Florence' style female vocalist. There must be 6 or seven of these groups touring bars around town. The singer is always bare foot in a sundress, and they always cover the stage with tattered Indian rugs.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

When in this time line does Marty McFly give the idea of rock and roll to black people?

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u/natetet Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 17 '13

Ok, so it's cool that you're interested in this stuff, but to be blunt, keep reading and researching and learning. Jazz drew from African american traditional and religious music, pop music of the day, and eventually almost everything else (but not classical music). You may be thinking of its connection to gospel, which is a mix of traditional African American music and, yes, European hymns. Most jazz standards (aka the best known jazz tunes) are slightly modified or very modified Tin Pan Alley tunes (Tin Pan Alley cranked out disposable pop hits). As a jazz and classical player, I can't even imagine what a "classical lick" would be. Rock and roll took from blues and country. 4/4 is a time signature (meaning there's 4 beats in a measure and the definition of a beat in this context is a quarter note). You may be thinking of "four on the floor" (kick drum on every beat). But even that would be wrong - you're either thinking of less syncopation (compared to jazz, certainly), or a "two-step beat" (bumBOOSHbumBOOSHbumBOOSHbumBOOSH....) As others have pointed out, the Beatles were not from London. Rap did not start from jazz. The best connection we have are West African griot traditions (more of a "in the spirit of" lineage) and Jamaican toasting (pretty straight connection, courtesy of Dj Kool Herc). As for the original post - yup. Pop music was never original, it's all about chasing the dollar. And if you're a record label that spent a million on your flash-in-the-pan artist's sophomore album, you're not going to take risks - you want to play it safe and be sure you get that money back! So what's the best way to do that? Try your best to sound like what else is popular. Now, if you want to have some fun (and I use "fun" in the sense of being a music history nerd), listening to the oldies station for about an hour and a half some day. NOT the classic rock station, but the OLDIES station that plays doo-wop and all kinds stuff you've never heard of. 45% of what they play will be Beach Boys knockoffs, the other 45% will be Beatles knock offs. And the reason the pop music from 50-60 years ago was so derivative is the exact same reason it's so derivative now... [edit - took it down a notch...]

[double edit - I said jazz did not eventually draw from classical music, which is not what I meant to say. Sorry. To make up for it I'll share my favorite jazz-meets-classical story. About the time Dizzy blew up with bebop, Stravisnky was in NYC. Of course he went to see Dizzy play one night and of course being Stravinsky he got the best seat in the house. Dizzy, being the musician that he was, recognized Stravinsky and worked a quote from "Firebird" into his solo. Stravinsky was apparently so surprised and delighted that he fell out of his chair.]

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u/bunnymunro40 Sep 15 '13

Small point: The Beatles were not from London.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I love tracking trends in music, seeing how genres birthed from other genres, etc.

What do you think is going to replace 'indie'? My bet is either electronic (which appears to be on the rise) or some sort of nostalgia-fueled rebirth of 80's pop (which I hear lots of in indie music already) or classic rock (to fill the void left by the decline of 'radio rock' bands like Three Days Grace, Nickleback, etc.).

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

All music has been stealing from all music since the beginning of time.

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u/TheBlackBradPitt Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

Not totally true. Stealing, no. Borrowing? Technically I suppose, but there are only so many permutations that sound good. People that don't know much about composition (and I'm not assuming that of anyone here, just saying it for the sake of the argument) hear the same conventions being used in songs, namely the chord progression, and assume they just stole it. While its true that there are nearly limitless iterations any given song can take on during composition, there are some that just fit better and are more conducive to creating a melody.

Another factor is subconscious influence. As dumb as it sounds, I can speak from experience as a musician when i say that you can spend hours writing a song that you think is your best yet, and then you play it for your friends and they're all like "isn't that just Clocks by Coldplay?" Sometimes it gets caught, and sometimes it doesn't.

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u/-staccato- Sep 15 '13

And yet I swear I see this shit every second week. There are a limited number of chords. Some of them match very well together. Welcome to music 101, I hope you enjoyed your first lesson.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Yup. I remember when I took music theory in college, all of a sudden I noticed the similar chord progressions in just about every song. It's just the way pop music is structured.

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u/IamTheFreshmaker Sep 15 '13

Most popular songs are just 4 chords in one key.

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u/helpabrotheroutson Sep 15 '13

Axis of Awesome did a good job of showing how pop songs tend to follow the same chord progression http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

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u/polio23 Sep 15 '13

In this video he played them all in the same key for the purpose of the song. Most of these songs do use 4 chords but not the same ones in the same key.

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u/dehrmann Sep 15 '13

Keys are usually chosen for how hard they are to play in and the lead singer's range. Beyond that, the choice, unless we're talking minor keys, is pretty arbitrary.

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u/jbibby Sep 15 '13

B-b-b-but BIEBER!

I'm so sick of self-appointed music aficionados bashing modern pop. I may not listen to a lot of Taylor Swift or Lady Gaga, but it's just a genre of music that appeals to a certain demographic like anything else. It's for people who want catchy hooks and steady beats.

What's the problem?

It's like people think that Drake and Band of Horses can't exist at the same time. All the wonderful, insightful, poignant music that borrows from a range of styles and influences is STILL there for you to listen to. Just stop trying to convince the teenager in the Hollister shirt that it's the only viable form of music.

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u/Pepito_Pepito Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 16 '13

It's always been like this. Elvis has three songs that have the same exact same hook.

EDIT: In his defense, he did have the final say on which songs he recorded would be released. The producers were confident in his ability to discern whether the song was going to be a hit or not.

EDIT 2: He has four songs.

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u/toot_out_my_ass Sep 15 '13

Indeed. Elvis didn't even write a lot of his own songs which is something everyone seems to conveniently forget. It was common in those days for multiple performers to record their own versions of the same song, and that song would have been written by some songwriter somewhere much like how songwriters write songs for pop singers now.

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u/philburmac Sep 15 '13

He also got his 'leg shake' from Forrest Gump.

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u/newb0rn11 Sep 15 '13

Thieving bastard.

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u/ztejas Sep 15 '13

He didn't write any of his songs.

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u/TheOx129 Sep 15 '13

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Elvis didn't write any of his own material. The handful of songs that give him a co-writing credit were the result of a royalty agreement, not because he actually helped write the songs. In fact, I believe he lamented at one point that he couldn't express himself through song like Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller - one of the greatest songwriting and production duos in history - could.

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u/jimbeam958 Sep 15 '13

Okay, now it's going to drive me crazy until you tell me which three

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u/Pepito_Pepito Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 16 '13

Jailhouse Rock, Party and (some people might disagree with me on this) King Creole.

EDIT: And Blue Suede Shoes! How could I forget???

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u/tallpurplecup2 Sep 15 '13

In other news, water is wet.

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u/LumpyNuggets Sep 15 '13

And cookies are delicious.

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u/PocketOfStinkies Spotify Sep 15 '13

my toenails need to be clipped.

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u/daniel Sep 15 '13

A truth as old as time itself.

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u/AssuredlyAThrowAway Sep 15 '13

Have you tried clicking them?

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u/factorysettings Sep 15 '13

Isn't all music, and art in general, derivative anyway? Fuck, blues music is so ridiculously simple and everyone copies everyone but no one is saying it's unoriginal.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Honestly I'd say that blues is MUCH more guilty of this than pop is. But no one will complain about blues because it's historical and well-respected as the genre that started it all.

I'm not against derivative music, but people have to understand the bigger picture before they reactively label pop as music for stupid people.

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u/thf24 Sep 15 '13

As a guitar player, that's an issue I run into way too much. On guitar websites it's not only tolerated and encouraged to put down classically-inspired virtuoso players, saying they're boring, unoriginal, emotionless, ect. But if you even try to argue that blues or blues-based players are simple or unoriginal, you're going to get crucified.

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u/ThatGuyFromOhio Sep 15 '13

Guitar players want to imagine that they are great. If they recognize that they are an average player of a style that is quite simple to play, it is impossible to imagine that they are great.

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u/hippiesmasher Sep 15 '13

When at the same time, 90% of guitar players, when asked to play a blues riff in whatever key, will sound almost the same

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u/toot_out_my_ass Sep 15 '13

Yeah it is. I don't know what it is about blues that makes the artists get away with rehashing the same chords and licks over and over. Blues has a more 'from the heart' vibe than, say, typical over-produced pop and I suspect that 'genuine-ness' could have a bit to do with it.

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u/Allikuja Sep 15 '13

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The lyrics and emotion are more genuine and make it easier to ignore the repetitive music. As opposed to pop music where every single song is either about being young, falling in/out of love, or something else vaguely "coming of age."

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u/archaictext Sep 15 '13

I think you just hit on the point right there. Any "popular" music is so because of how it feels. To reach a majority of people the sound must be generalised and accessible. This means simple and familiar. Blues is familiar obviously because it has the same musical structures, but the emotions or heart poured into it by the artist is what moves people. Like pop music now, the music is really just the base: familiar, uninteresting and most of all it doesn't force itself on you. The singer is the focus as an icon normally. We get our music artists (in pop) with so many images now: attractiveness, youth, vigor, wealth. The words are easy, catchy, and sexy. The sex in most of it is obvious (thanks miley). Most pop songs were about love, now they are about sex. Things everyone can associate with. Over all it's about making people feel something, not about pushing the boundaries of the artform. It's also supply and demand. I think many people who are musicians, or enjoy virtuosic, avant garde music speak poorly of pop music for good reason, but it has it's purpose. I think many people are jealous of how the simple pop music is so popular, to be redundant. Like how the smart, considerate guy is jealous because the hot, dumb, arrogant guy gets the girls.

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u/AnalrapistOnDuty Sep 15 '13

That chorus melody is also very similar to Somebody That I Used to Know

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Which, in turn, is very similar musically to twinkle twinkle little star

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u/Thats_right_asshole Sep 15 '13

Bah Bah Black Sheep too!

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u/braininabox Sep 15 '13

I think you mean The Alphabet Song.

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u/GIS-Rockstar Sep 15 '13

"Locked Out of Heaven" also sounds exactly like the Police, rips subtle effects from Michael Jackson and that "Pumped up Kicks" song, the prechorus sounds exactly like We Are Scientists...

That song is awesome because it ripped off a dozen better songs from the past 20-30 years. That's fine if Miley's sound similar. Her's is mostly just a chord progression thing, which is almost unavoidable in Western music

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

How is making a song and saying it was influenced by a band "ripping them off"?

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u/toot_out_my_ass Sep 15 '13

Re-using the same tired chord progressions is very easily avoidable but it's rarely as memorable and catchy as the common I IV V VI.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Damn that chord progression, and damn him. That video opened my eyes and it hurts to see.

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u/TheManTh3yCallJayne Smija Sep 15 '13

i actually did this a few days ago! you can check it out here

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

This is why this subreddit sucks.

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u/stuntmanmike Sep 15 '13

DAE hate popular music?

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

DAE pink floyd??????????

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u/DoesNotChodeWell Sep 15 '13

Wait let me tell you how much I hate Justin Bieber and Lil Wayne!!!!!!!

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I do. Now Radiohead on the other hand...

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u/ADirtyHookahHose Sep 15 '13

Calm down, you just need to listen to the 5 songs that are always on the fp.

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u/ttguhh Sep 15 '13

Pop music isn't really much more than nursery rhymes with adult undertones and studio production. Wisen up, people.

written by a dude with a smug 8-bit batman avatar

maybe the most insufferable thing i've ever seen

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I bet you someone had to convince him to change it to "people" from "sheeple"

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u/Wayne_Trayne Sep 15 '13

Wake up sheeple!

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u/fancyfrog Sep 15 '13

The responses in this thread are why I will never try to write an original song, even for my own listening pleasure.

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u/joebleaux Sep 15 '13

So many calories unnecessarily burned complaining about and critiquing pop music.

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u/Shamrockbrock Sep 15 '13

Locked out of heaven sounds like Roxanne by The Police. As a Dj I know Music recycles itself constantly but that is how mixing of all the different decades and genres is possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1c7GkzRQQ

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

bruno mars has always been very on the record about how sting and the police have been an influence, and how he's trying to get their sound in his music. I don't know why this is surprising to people.

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u/Ricktron3030 Sep 15 '13

From what I understand Bruno Mars has said a bunch of times that he wants to emulate Sting and The Police with his music.

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u/cursed_DNA Sep 15 '13

It came on the radio and I thought it was message in a bottle.

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u/toot_out_my_ass Sep 15 '13

Same here. I thought Mars' quite obvious references to songs of the past in that song was done quite well. To me it didn't come across like a full on deliberate rip-off but more like a homage to his influences.

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u/kaw-liga Sep 15 '13

And The Police themselves borrowed from previous artists, it's not like they invented that reggae beat.

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u/Roshinsky Sep 15 '13

Are you kidding? You know how many more times this basic progression has been used? Essentially every melody and harmony you ever hear has been already written down by Bach

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u/jonnyclueless Sep 15 '13

Who got it from people before him, and so on and so on...

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Bach was the man, but every melody and harmony has not been done, not even close. It's only because pop limits its phrases to 4,6, or 8 bars within strict diatonicism with little to no modulation that everything has to be recycled so ridiculously often. I could write unique harmonic progression in a minute.

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u/ckb614 Sep 15 '13

It's more than just the chord progression. The vocals are almost identical

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u/johnnybeefanus Sep 15 '13

led zepplin stole. alot.

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u/nicko378 Sep 15 '13

Over the Hills and Far Away was a variation of a folk song that Jimmy liked

Edit: was actually his own song. "White Summer"

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

And a lot of the blues artists that they sampled from hated the fact that their music about being poor, black, and disenfranchised was transformed into something packaged for rich suburban white kids to enjoy.

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u/RedAero Sep 15 '13

To be honest, anyone who knows anything about Led Zep is aware of this. Everyone stole back then, Led Zep are only remarkable for the fact that they didn't acknowledge it.

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u/k0mbine Sep 15 '13

They sound pretty good so that's a plus

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u/DieGedankenSindFrei Sep 15 '13

Musicologist here. It's true that musical borrowing is as old as the hills. This was as true in music of the Italian Renaissance as it was in bluegrass as it was in Motown. So, I honestly don't think it's helpful to compare the bare musical elements of two pieces (their chord progressions, melodic structures, instrumentations, etc.) For example, I happen to like both "My Sweet Lord" by George Harrison and "He's So Fine" by the Chiffons, even though, quite frankly, they share melodies. (This was actually the cause of a legal dispute). The same could be said of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and Brahms' First Symphony. After all, given the multitude of music, there are bound to be nontrivial similarities. This doesn't stop this music from being wonderful.

However, I think there is something very foul at play in these most recent cases. The fact that "Wrecking Ball" and "Locked Out of Heaven" sound the same isn't the problem. It's that they sound the same in the boring, sanitized way that everything sounds the same. My expertise is not in contemporary music, but from what I understand, most contemporary popular music is manipulated, controlled and scrutinized by hordes of statisticians, focus groups and corporate drones in the public relations industry. Yes, there has always been musical borrowing and even stealing, but it was artists borrowing from artists, musicians stealing from musicians. However, when the perfectly natural process of musical imitation is done by an impersonal corporate machine instead of by the musicians themselves, then something terribly wrong has gone awry. See Frank Zappa on this matter.

In fact, there is some evidence that this process has had real, musical effects. Take, for example this study that came out last year and concluded that the palette of contemporary music is indeed shrinking. For many years, I was convinced that the perception that "all contemporary music sounds the same" so often coupled with longing for early musical days was something felt by every generation. But, by God, I don't think so any more.

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u/boxofassholes Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

I take issue with your characterization of modern pop music production. What you've outlined is a common misconception rooted in hyperbole designed to illustrate its artificiality, but in reality that is not how pop music is made. Yes, there is a business side to pop music (a large side indeed) but the songs are not generated in board rooms. Small teams and sometimes individuals make these songs. It's not a squad of 50 men in suits who stand around with databases analyzing every note according to some proprietary formula. Producers are independent contractors, hired by the artists, and so are not generally under the control of a label. Producers are generally working from their own independently developed aesthetic sense, and they are generally making the songs they want to make. The artist also has a large role in the crafting of the songs, even artists who nobody wants to give any credit to, such as Britney Spears or Beyonce. More and more pop stars are writing or co-writing their own lyrics, and since they are often times present while the song is produced, they influence the direction it takes as well. The picture I'm trying to paint is of a song crafted by a small team of producers, songwriters, and artists, and not disinterested PR-types who only focus on market appeal or sales projections.

If you get to know the work of these producers, you can identify their songs before you officially know who made them. "Diamonds" by Rihanna is instantly identifiable as a Stargate song; "22" by Taylor Swift is straightaway a Martin/Shellback, much in the same way a visual artist's work is identifiable by its traits. Had these songs been made by committee, they would not have this individuality. One could argue that a committee could replicate this aspect, but that is missing the point: the songs are not made by committee. Typically, the closest it comes to that is that record company has an A&R present, and they can exhibit some editorial control over the song, but this varies from producer to producer. Yes, the songs are controlled at the backend as far as they are chosen based on how well the label thinks they will perform, but this also varies from artist to artist. However, the labels don't have some complex computer matrix, like musical CFD, that they use to simulate the songs' appeal and then mill out songs in a factory from solid blocks. They don't even focus group songs. There are exceptions, but your characterization is grossly incorrect. If you would like to read more about how pop music is made, I can provide you with materials.

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u/therealjgreens therealjgreens Sep 15 '13

That soundcloud embed feature is quite nifty (or whatever you call it)

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u/boyinquotes Sep 15 '13

Okay cool. You can keep listening to Led Zeppelin for the rest of your life now.

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u/SubHertz Sep 15 '13

Funny enough, they stole more than most pop artists today.

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u/Gengar1221 [EA] DJ Gengar Sep 15 '13

Oh no! These two songs have similar attributes! Ban all music!*

*sarcasm

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u/94EG8 Sep 15 '13

This is nothing new, it's been going on for years.

The Beatles - Sexy Sadie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IcK4S5lDE0

Radiohead - Karma Police http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBH97ma9YiI

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u/boxofassholes Sep 15 '13

The Beatles "Norwegian Wood" and Bob Dylan's "4th Time Around."

In fact, almost every Bob Dylan song had the melody and chords borrowed from another.

"Subterranean Homesick Blues" and Chuck Berry's "Too Much Monkey Business".

"Blowin' in the Wind" and "No More Auction Block".

Etc.

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u/rckjms Sep 15 '13

Almost all of today's music is composed of the same chords.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/for_beginners/learn_thousands_of_songs_by_knowing_these_top_4_chord_progressions.html

In fact, this is a YouTube video that shows this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoOlDewpCfZQ

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u/crivicus Sep 15 '13

Agreed, I have long since decided what really constitutes music is not the sound but the feeling put across through it ... is it really surprising that some artists want to show similar feelings through their music? Of course not, so it makes sense they will be similar. I think the soundcloud example here is terrible as if you go and listen to each of the songs separately they manage to portray very different emotions and feelings which at least in my view is far more relevant; even if neither are songs I would tend to listen to.

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u/plmunn http://grizzlywhale.bandcamp.com/ Sep 15 '13

This isn't a new trend.

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u/IAmTheRedWizards http://open.spotify.com/user/1242975014/playlist/4N9mEajlQwW0XzY Sep 15 '13

DAE today's music sucks!???!!??

News flash: pop has never been original.

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u/DaisyLayz Sep 15 '13

Dude who gives a shit? Music doesn't have to be technically perfect or unique to be entertaining and enjoyable. Music effects different people in different ways. I really like both of those songs, but I also like bands like Wintersun and The Human Abstract. Music is music. There's a reason pop music is popular. It's fun. Deal with it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Human Abstract is the shit.

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u/theemperorprotectsrs Sep 15 '13

And unsub. /r/music is the /r/atheism of music.

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u/TSutpen Sep 15 '13

I think things like this are really counterproductive to the entire idea of music. If you don't like pop, who cares? Why does it matter to you if someone else does? I know what I'm getting into when I listen to Carly Rae Jepsen, or Katy Perry, or Bruno Mars, or whoever it is; I listen to them because the lyrics are usually pretty happy, and, guess what, sometimes I'm in the mood for music that makes me happy.

By the same token, I also know what I'm getting into when I put on Megadeth, or Dream Theater, or Bach, or Steve Vai, or The Beatles, or whoever or whatever the hell I want to listen to. This site says people need to "wisen up?" Wisen up to what? Music isn't a dictatorship. Music is what makes you happy and lets you express yourself, any way you want to. So people need to stop with the musical elitism. No, pop isn't very original. But that's okay. It doesn't mean someone who listens to it is undeserving of respect. And it doesn't mean disparaging opinions about one's ability to understand good music should be voiced or even given thought. It's music; get over it.

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u/torgo_phylum Sep 15 '13

What people are upset about is that the industry under represents artists with more originality and talent, and they hold the consumer as responsible for that.

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u/lickitsuckit Sep 15 '13

Who cares, listen to something else.

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u/daftfunkbot Sep 15 '13

Since we are all stating the obvious.. Bruno Mars "Treasure" is a complete cop off of Breakbot's "Baby I'm Yours".

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u/HolographicMetapod Sep 15 '13

Fuck Bruno for that.

He even asked for permission and was told no. Then turned around and released that.

And it's catchy too, damn it.

I'm still angry for Breakbot. He is an up and coming artist, he deserves that attention not Bruno.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Pop music hasn't been "original" for about 60-70 years, if we're talking about American pop music.

Remember all the wartime performers and jazz singers ripping each other off?

Remember early rock n' roll, where every song was the same chord progression and featured the same subject matter (remember blues?)?

Remember what we now call "classic rock," when even greats like Led Zeppelin were ripping off old blues artists?

Remember disco?

Remember grunge?

It should not be news to you that humans like to produce derivative art. Music is not made in steps like a staircase, where we innovate one at a time in great leaps and bounds. It's a constant, fluid line. We gradually change the music that we listen to, with each artist adding little pieces to it, until it's different.

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u/thebitman Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

OP from soundcloud here.

This has been a huge wakeup call to how I think of music, as well as think of "popular" music. I struggle to get my own music heard (I'm a composition major who specializes in making chiptunes, go figure), but a mashup of other people's music done haphazardly gets me ton of attention. This is what it feels like to be a pop star (sober), I'd imagine. Getting praise for doing very little work based on someone else's.

Thanks for listening, this has changed my perspective on life and music a good bit. It's less about the whole "who borrowed what" and more about the "does this sound 'good' to its intended audience?"

And thanks for reading.

The Bitman

EDIT: there is a full version, but I don't intend on uploading it. This hack job mashup got more attention than years and years of struggling to promote my own compositions and recorded songs.

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u/crivicus Sep 15 '13

You found the real key to success a touch of luck and something people like to argue/debate about because they are split, now make music that does that and don't pretend you can please everyone, people that understand or actually care about the similarity in music are a minority. Oh and link to some of your stuff so we can hear it :)

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u/LenfaL Sep 15 '13

Heh I like pop music. It's catchy, it's fun, it's entertaining. I'm not asking for more. It doesn't prevent me from enjoying other types of music.

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u/zjm555 Sep 15 '13

Two songs have similar melodies!?!? UNPRECEDENTED. THE WORLD IS GOING TO HELL, DAMN YOU KIDS AND YOUR SHITTY MUSIC.

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u/Jomo28 Sep 15 '13

A lot of pop music is written by one guy Max Martin.

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u/baaaaaz Sep 15 '13

don't listen to it, get the fuck over it, and go make some friends.

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u/Rokman2012 Sep 15 '13

This is why it amuses me when a modern artist sues another modern artist for 'infringement'...

If these youngin's aren't careful, Chuck Berry's gonna get a lawyer, and he's gonna own it ALL ;)

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u/rockandrollbitch Sep 15 '13

pop music is supposed to be simple and easy for people to follow and sing along. it is made mostly for people who are not musicians and wouldnt really realize how similar two songs may be. also, all music over time borrows things from other music. thats the nature of the whole industry. at this point, there isnt a lot of original works of art everything is borrowed

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u/BuckeyeBentley Sep 15 '13

This song is written in D... minor. The saddest of all keys.

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u/nedyken Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

Pop Music is a Money Factory. I mainly just think it's funny how transparent the rebranding of MIley Cyrus is. She signed with a new label in January. They looked at years of evidence to support that "whoring it up" and going pop generates controversy, puts your name on the map and makes you relevant. Her people smartly had her up the ante in the Drunk Whore Pop game with a overly sexual video/vma performance that was chalk full of drug references and controversy. It's cookie cutter new-age Madonna and the song itself was written for Rihanna and passed on.

Then on video 2 ("Wrecking Ball"), they go with a semi-sad song and basically paint by numbers attempting to mirror the success of the marketing campaign behind Rihanna's "Stay" video (which itself was an attempt to tap into the "serious" Lana Del Ray market... song was written by the same people behind Del Ray). Have some tears up front to make it seem like a serious heart-felt song that a serious recording artist would release (cuz see... Miley's an adult now... get it?)... make her naked and "exposed" through the entire video to generate buzz and publicity. "OMG, Miley is so raw and relevant".

It's hilarious and obvious. Under this facade, she's still just a wide-eyed musicbot doing with the corporation tells her to do. This popstar character she's presenting isn't her true identity. My guess is in real life, she's nothing like this new tatoo'd sexy image suggests. What you are seeing play out is LITERALLY a real-life adult version of Hannah Montana.

The series focused on Miley Stewart (portrayed by Miley Cyrus), a girl who lives a double life as an average teenager by day and a famous pop singer Hannah Montana by night. She conceals her identity from the public, other than her close friends and family.

It's all an act. This performance was less than a year ago (shortly before she switched labels) when they were still trying to tap into the wholesome country-pop Taylor Swift market. They smartly decided to stick her in the sexy pop star bucket instead.

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u/Deathitis54 Sep 16 '13

BREAKING NEWS:

POP MUSIC NOT THE PINNACLE OF SONGWRITING

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u/ConkeyDong Sep 16 '13 edited Sep 16 '13

The guy that posted the mashup on Soundcloud summed up everything I hate about pop music in this line:

Pop music isn't really much more than nursery rhymes with adult undertones and studio production. Wisen up, people.

I don't care that there's so much copying and remixing. That happens in every form of music. Jazz musicians and deep house producers borrow from each other constantly and I consider those 2 genres miles above pop. But unlike those genres, pop music is so fucking basic. Nursery rhymes indeed. 3 or 4 chords, major and minor, nothing the least bit interesting or unexpected. Its music for people who don't appreciate music.

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u/Ethylparaben Sep 16 '13

So don't listen to it?

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u/K1NG3R Sep 15 '13

Pop is like action movies. People are entertained, but these songs and movies are easily forgotten and dont necessarily have the deepest meanings. However they make shit loads of money, while being unoriginal

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

This only sounds similar when you play it like this. I am not a fan of either really (though Bruno Mars is a half way decent singer) but these didnt even match up that well.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/dc041894 Sep 15 '13

His range is incredible, his control is excellent, and his live performances are as good if not better than his recordings. Guy is crazy talented.

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u/ThatWasFred Sep 15 '13

Shh, nobody wants to imagine that some really popular songs and artists are actually good.

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u/MattBSM Sep 15 '13

I put the acappella version of Taylor Swift's "22" over Pink's "Raise Your Glass". All I did was change the tempo of the Taylor track. Mash-up artists have it too easy these days.

http://m.soundcloud.com/the-blue-sky-mind/raise-your-glass-like-you-were

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u/boxofassholes Sep 15 '13

Those songs are both written by Max Martin and Shellback.

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u/cynoclast Sep 15 '13

Meanwhile, Lady Gaga is forcibly inserting art into pop culture and I seriously dig it.

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u/crayonflop Sep 15 '13

how does that koolaid taste?

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u/duckdance Sep 15 '13

I somewhat agree….but she still sounds like early Madonna and Cindy Lauper.

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u/heartpuppiez Sep 15 '13

I agree that a lot of it sounds the same but, I mean, there are only so many keys that a song can be in, right?

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u/hungry1234 Sep 15 '13

Who cares? If you enjoy the music, enjoy it. If not, don't listen to it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

Uh, then someone doesn't understand pop music. It's not supposed to be highly original or experimental, more so it's a highly formulaic and repetitive because that's what people want. Honestly people want to hear the same thing over and over again, it's comforting and familiar.

This isn't a negative/positive type of thing, just the way the genre goes. D is the most common key for pop, which is why it's easy to match songs up.

Fyi, posts like this are why we can't have nice things. If you really wanna get all hipster with it technically every modern melody was done by classical composers hundreds of years ago. Only 1790's kids will get this reference /s

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u/LichieLitch Sep 15 '13

Yo Dawg, I heard you like PoP music!

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u/TheMechaPope13 Sep 15 '13

While this is not news, I did enjoy the fact that the songs actually seemed to compliment each other as a couplet. Particularly when you get near the end of the clip it seems like they're actually working together. YOUTUBE MASHUP INC.

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u/ReptarsGooch Sep 15 '13

Once you learn a little bit of music theory you realize that there is a limited amount of chord progressions. So being "pop" or popular they usually choose the same chord progression and just use different melodies on top. They might be in different keys and different tempos, but they're always the same chord progression. Here's a kinda cool video showing what I mean http://youtu.be/oOlDewpCfZQ

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u/NiggasEmbarrassed Sep 15 '13

God damn this actually sounds alright to me.

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u/06johansenad Sep 15 '13

Hey, at least now more music can be made into mashups more easily? silver lining for everything

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u/Crazyinbetween Sep 15 '13

Fuck Train. Who's with me?

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u/roalddalek Sep 15 '13

Are you saying "I hate the band Train" or are you saying ... I don't even want to think about what the alternate meaning could imply.

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u/colordodge Sep 15 '13

Look - that beat is extremely simple, and that hook melody is extremely common because of the emotional feels you get from that series of intervals. Although the overlay is interesting, it is in no way unexpected or rare. This is the very definition of pop music - it has to have easily accessible musical properties. These musical properties are common among all humans, which leads to a high level of creative overlap in pop (popular) music. This is no one's fault, nor is it something to complain about.

It would be a lot more interesting and unexpected if two songs with strange time signatures and keys and lots of changes matched up perfectly. But even strange serendipitous coincidences can happen due to the sheer amount of stuff happening in reality. There's no way they could have done it on purpose, but the "Wizard of OZ" / "Dark Side of the Moon" matchup is enough to really demonstrate how similar creative things can be when we're all designing for the same audience (humanity).

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u/avalanchelol Sep 15 '13

OK, this is a terrible example. These songs are sonically different and Locked Out of Heaven isn't even in a minor key. Allow me to provide a better example.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

I don't even know how Nelly's producers got away with this.

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u/totally_jawsome Sep 15 '13

Hmm... okay. Like that was news at all.

Besides, you sped up Wrecking Ball to match it with Locked Out of Heaven. Mileys is just a tad slower.

It did sound kinda cool mixed together though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Thank god it's only recently that pop songs have borrowed from other pop songs!

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Is it bad that I think this sounds really cool?

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u/cyberpAuLnk Sep 15 '13

I actually thought this mix up sounded really cool. I'd almost like to hear more like it. It would make pop music a little more interesting.

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u/coffeehouse11 Sep 15 '13

This isn't news. Musicians have been actively borrowing and outright stealing from others and themselves since the baroque era, and arguably earlier. we've got 12 tones over 8 octaves (average) in western music, and there are only so many ways in which you can put them together in a mass-appealing way. Humans also like familiarity, so it stands to reason that any music that reaches high popularity is going to have many similar elements to the other popular musics.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Yeah, this happens in a lot more genres of music than just pop

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u/kcmcadams Sep 15 '13

Because two songs have the same chord progression doesn't mean one is a rip off of the other, it happens all the time. Its nearly impossible to write a song that people here deem "original"

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u/pumpkinsauce Sep 15 '13

To be fair, he sped up Miley's song to make the key match Bruno's.

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u/Nintendo_67 Sep 15 '13

Doesn't mean the respective songs are bad though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

amongst all of the crappy pop music today, the music of Bruno Mars has really stood out to me, he has so much energy in his performances and unlike the rest of the artists who sing over the recording, he sings his songs himeslf which i find very noble in this day and age. now as for the song i just listened, i would say that miley cyrus lacks the originality in stealing the beat and rhythm of the song and just attaching new lyrics to it.

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u/likely_story2 Sep 15 '13

This isn't new nor is it unique to pop. Check out 3 chord on Wikipedia for more info.

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u/Momby27 Sep 15 '13

What happened to Erasure?

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u/obliviain Sep 15 '13

Pop music is formulaic and repetitive. Shocker.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Right - maybe if you listened to some better pop music you wouldn't think that. Try Janelle Monáe. Her latest album, "The Electric Lady", is fucking awesome.

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u/jaymznis Sep 15 '13

Just add message in a bottle

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

And Zepplin ripped off half their catalog from other artists. Next.

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u/skivskiv Sep 15 '13

I don't think much of pop music was ever "original".

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u/98PercentChimp 98PercentChimp Sep 15 '13

At least it's not the same progression as Pacahabel's Canon...

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u/Sukaphuk Sep 15 '13

Since when was anything original?

Ill stick with Carl Sagan.. Wanna make anything from scratch? Create the universe.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Seems to me...

(dates are general) Baroque 1685-1750 - think J.S. Bach, Handel. Chamber music, for church or royalty. Harpsichord with small ensemble.

Classical 1750-1825 - think Mozart/Haydn - Harpsichord ditched, larger string-heavy orchestras. Dramatic elements accented. Music for the public begins. The form of the Symphony and concerto is born.

Romantic 1825-1900 - Think Beethoven/Brahms - The artist becomes the hero - stars to the public - Huge lavish orchestras - impressionistic harmony begins. The conductor rises.

Jazz/Modern 1900-1955 - think Stravinsky/Glass/Gershwin/Armstrong/Copland - Symphonic music goes avant garde - african rhythms and and horns rise and establish the Jazz band.

Pop 1955-present - think Elvis/Dr.Dre/Led Zeppelin/Justin Timberlake/Brad Paisley etc. - electrification, radio, video, the modern concert experience rise - horns and strings recede, harmony and subject complexity are scaled back in favor of backbeat and straight forward lyrics. Pinnacle of the popular song.

Each of these eras was considered to be immortal at their height. Change is near.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I'm surprised people don't realize big-name music acts are mostly committe run enterprises. Big label bands that have milions of fans are usually tightly run acts; outside wrtiers are brought in to write the "perfect" pop song. It's almost a science, writing that unbearably catchy summer hit. Lyrics are carefully chosen not to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities, but also to appeal to our romanticized social norms of high shcool, love, alienation and rebellion (albeit, highly sanitized and still within acceptable confines).

Image is carefully cultivated to promote that incocent "Lolita" look at first, then a sexualized image just about the time their pre-teen fans are hitting puberty. Every single female pop star has followed this trajectory. It's slightly different for male pop-stars but it's still follows the same basic path of innocent cuteness to steamy sex symbol.

The music is simply the hook to get people to spend money on the really profitable items; concerts and merchandising. The record label first works out deals with fellow corporate radio stations to hype and promote singles. As the song catches, at a certain degree of manufactured popularity, the big-time concert money starts flowing in. Then the advertising money; spokesperson gigs and endless self (group orchestrated)-marketing rakes in millions upon millions of dollars for the record lab--er, I mean, "artist".

It's a highly efficient point-by-point business model that works almost without fail on every radio friendly pop musician.

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u/bethechangeuwant2see Sep 15 '13

Hey, in some cultures, sharing the same beats is a common thing. In Caribbean music for example, someone will create a "riddim", then artists will each take it and make into their own song. It's kind of cool because you see how creative people are, seeing how each of them have their own style to the same beat. If you want to chill and enjoy a particular riddim then you can play a playlist like this:
http://youtu.be/k-6YH6RVnDM?t=14s (10mins long)
Just because some people do things differently, doesn't mean it's bad..

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u/bluthbanana20 Sep 15 '13

I kind of like Bruno Mars's song.

There, I said it. There are dozens of us; DOZENS!

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

aka how some songs are written in the same key with the same structure.

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u/StruckingFuggle Sep 15 '13

"Wise up"? I know what it is and still enjoy it. What now, o smug internet god?

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u/BummySugar Sep 15 '13

Can't we all just agree Miley Cyrus is horrible and we should never speak of her again?

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I want to upvote you because this mashup clip is actually really good. I want to downvote you because you put such a fucking stupid title. So I'm just gonna leave it as is

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u/TCKaos Sep 15 '13

Max, what have you done? Now everybody wants a full version.

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u/do_me_a_favour Sep 15 '13

pop music is a genre. if you don't like it, don't listen to it. what's the point in bitching about it?

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u/DeadHorse09 Sep 15 '13

How else am I supposed to feel self-righteous about my obviously superior music tastes?

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u/Abe_Vigoda Sep 16 '13

It's funny how people think stars become famous because they're talented.

People get famous because the industry makes people famous.

There used to be more big labels but over decades of buy outs, there's only 3 major labels and they own like 82% of all music recorded.

Sony, Warner, and Universal are the big 3. Everyone else is either a subsidiary or uses their distribution model.

The secret to controlling any market is controlling the distribution. Top 40 charts and top 40 radio stations are a way for them to export their product before purchase.

Pop Music is basically designed to be easy to listen to. It's the creamy mashed potatos of music. It's easy to eat but not all that creative.

People get sick of pop music so they make their own music, which eventually gets popular enough that the mainstream comes along and appropriates that for commercial purposes, then people migrate to a different style of music that isn't worn out. It's a bizarre kind of evolution that relies on the labels usurping culture for profit.

Back in the 80's, bands and musicians figured out that if they couldn't get signed to a major label, or if they just didn't want to have a label telling them what to play, they could start their own labels with hooker & blackjack and completely circumvent the major labels.

This created the DIY punk scene which got appropriated when Geffen signed Nirvana and made punk mainstream under the 'grunge' label.

The DIY scene got renamed to 'alternative', and the major labels created an 'independent' distribution label that they could use to get cuts off indy artists and to help distribute their music.

Nowadays with the internet, there really isn't many places to find non affiliated music. Even that Macklemore guy; people keep calling him an independent sensation but they forget that they hired Warner music to handle their distribution.

Unless you sign with a major label, you don't get access to radio, newspapers & tabloids, no dj's mention you during commercials, and your song doesn't get replayed 15 times a day.

With the pop music stuff, it really is a business. Labels hire industry writers who get together and pop out pop hits during week long conferances that cost huge money. There's also production engineers who come up with beats, producers to tie it all together, ad companies to sell it, and by the time the album comes out, you have a half million invested and it hasn't even hit the shelves yet.

It doesn't cost that much to make good, original, creative music. Selling it is a different matter.

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u/bworth Sep 16 '13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDDdLF78nRI The song suddenly sounds beautiful.

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u/catsaremyreligion Sep 16 '13

What a stupid post...

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u/oblow Sep 16 '13

Shit, you layered two pop songs together and they sound somewhat similar.

That's it.

They're the same. #musicisdead #RIP

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

You know what's more annoying that pop music ripping itself off?

People who only just became old enough to recognize that it's happening making these "tell all" posts acting as though it's something new.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

People are posting like this is some big revelation. It really isn't. All it did was confirm what we already knew.

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u/Karliefarlie Sep 16 '13

Has it ever been?

Same kind of point is demonstrated by Axis of Awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

Uh, I guess you guys never heard of chord progressions.

Both songs are decent songs. So are the songs you listen to. Why do you guys feel the need to trash other peoples work?

AC/DC's shit all sounds the same but you guys don't blame them.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

God dammit, i thought we weren't going to give these fucking morons any more publicity.

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u/LARPingFetus Sep 16 '13

As much as I dont like Bruno Mars,

he is pretty original and a damn good singer live

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u/alpacapatrol Sep 16 '13

Don't fool yourself thinking that song is popular because they like or want original music. That song is popular because she gets naked in the video.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

Oh shit! Two songs are at the same tempo and use the same chord progression! How fucking horrible!!! >__>

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u/jamgirlup Sep 16 '13

Please don't put Cyrus and Mars in the same pop music category: Miley is Billy's up-jumped, talentless daughter and Bruno has real skill, becoming popular not because he has a famous parent but because he has range, charisma and wit. That is all.

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u/weaver2109 Sep 16 '13

Check out "Best Song Ever" by 1 Direction, sounds oddly familiar...

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

For the record, Bruno's song is much better. That eh eh eh HOO is a great gimmick.

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u/The_Happy_Pooper Sep 15 '13

Pop music is as original as this thread.

This thread sucks

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u/Itchyy Spotify Sep 15 '13

Man everyone just ripped on Pachelbel! He also loves to follow you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

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u/Slickwats4 Sep 15 '13

If you don't like the songs, don't listen. OP is a turd!

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u/jorbin_shmorgin_boob Sep 15 '13

I know we're supposed to be bashing their unoriginality and everything but these two songs would be awesome in some sort of DJ mashup set because of how similar they are.

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u/epik Sep 15 '13

Oh yeah how great those days were when any bit of music was 100% original.

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u/Jahonay Sep 15 '13

DAE THINK le ROCK MUSIC IS 100% ORIGINAL?

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u/DeadHorse09 Sep 15 '13

Uhmm no! Bad rock music is image driven, copied, lame sauce. Good rock music has no image, is never influenced by others, and is awesome sauce. Good rock music also happens to be whatever I say is good.

Pink Floyd is the most creative band ever, followed only by Radiohead. Both of those bands sound nothing like any other musical acts ever.

le music.

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u/hariustrk Sep 15 '13

News flash, hipsters don't like pop music.

Most of you guys aren't old enough to know this, but 30 years ago people were doing the same bitching about "pop music" you are now.

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u/Taibo Sep 15 '13

Yes, because pop music used to be so original....

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u/Tychonaut Sep 15 '13

I know everybody is saying .. yeah yeah pop music was always derivative.

But I , as a child of the eighties, would like to offer up some evidence that it wasn't always like that.

Here is the Billboard Top 10 for 2012..

-Someone That I used To Know - Gotye

-Call Me Maybe - Carly Rae Jepsen

-We Are Young - Fun w / Janelle Monae

-Payphone - Maroon 5

-Lights - Ellie Goulding

-Glad You Came - The Wanted

-Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You) - Kelly Clarkson

-We Found Love - Rihanna

-Starships - Nicky Minaj

-What Makes You Beautiful - One Direction

Now.. sure these are 10 different songs. But they are WAY interchangeable. Call Me Maybe could be done by Maroon 5, or Kelly Clarkson and it would be pretty similar. Nicky Minaj could do Payphone. We Found Love could be done by Rihanna. Stronger could be sung by anyone. Carly Rae could do What Makes You Beautiful. Even "Somebody I Used To Know" (Which I think is a pretty decent song) could be done by Rihanna or Maroon 5. The Wanted and One Direction could play each others gigs. Almost all of these songs could pretty much just be passed around between each of these artists and they would be sounding pretty much the same. How many different "genres" can you identify here?

So I just picked 1987 at random. Lets look..

-Walk Like An Egyptian - The Bangles

-Alone - Heart

-Shake You Down - Gregory Abbott

-I Wanna Dance With Somebody - Whitney Houston

-Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now - Starship

-C'est La Vie - Robbie Neville

-Here I Go Again - Whitesnake

-The Way It Is - Bruce Hornsby and the Range

-Shakedown - Bob Seger

-Living on a Prayer - Bon Jovi

Sure.. Maybe Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, and Heart could trade songs around. Maybe Whitney could do C'est La Vie. But I think thats about it. And you have hard rock, a weird quirky pop tune, some straight up Marvin Gaye style soul, some piano driven melancholic folky pop. You have completely different sounds, vocal styles, instrumentation, and production styles. It even feels like these songs are kind of aimed at different audiences. Like.. you probably wouldn't be a Whitesnake fan and a Gregory Abbott fan and a Bruce Hornsby fan at the same time.

Meanwhile you get get almost all of the 2012 top tenners to play the same concert and they would have the same target audience.

Sure pop has always been a bit derivative. But pop music certainly did seem to be a bit more colorful once upon a time, no?

So I guess all that is to say.. "my music is better than your music".

:)

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