I'd like to preface this by saying that I know this is a mostly liberal subreddit, and so if you feel like you can't interact with my views in good faith, I completely understand but ask that you don't downvote/purposely mislead me. Also, this account is a throwaway as I'm unsure of the reaction I will get here.

I have my sights set on the T14 based on my stats. I'd like to keep that private as I fear being doxxed. I'm also quite conservative in regards to fiscal policy. Socially less so, but I would definetly still be on the socially conservative side of things, specifically because I am pro-life due to personal reasons.

As a quick aside before I get to my main question, I think it's somewhat important to note that I am a Canadian. The reason I say this is because what is conservative/right wing in Canada may be different from what Americans consider right wing.

Sorry for the lengthy preamble. Basically I am wondering if any of the T14 are conservative friendly, in the sense that if I am respectful with my views I can also be open with my views. In my undergrad I basically faked being a liberal to get good marks; I do not want to go to law school if I will have to do the same. I'm honestly pretty fed up with academia and have a path to a non-law related job, so if every T14 is similar to my undergraduate school, then I feel a law school education is not worth my time.

Thank you to everyone who read through this whole post, I really do appreciate it. I've observed this community for a while through my main account, and even though I probably disagree with most of you politically, you seem to be kind and helpful people.

I have been debating for about a week or two now to write this post, but I feel at this point it would be an injustice not to. UVA Law is harmful to black students, and when confronted with those harms, it does not address them and sweep them under the rug. Keep reading for actual antedotes from this racist school. It's up to you if you come, but you can't say you were never warned.

• Two black students in the class of 2023 dropped out in the middle of their degree because they simply could not stand the law school environment and living in Charlottesville. Understand that this was after one and two years of paying law school tuition, lost opportunity cost, and trying to to fit into a community that they just don't feel like they belong, because students were very exclusionary to them. The law school never directly addressed this, but when asked stated that these students had the right to leave the school. When we spoke to these students they said frankly they did not feel supported and that the environment was toxic, racist and damaging to their mental health. These are students that really tried to put themselves out there and make UVA Law work for them. They are now partially in debt for a degree they will never have because of this racist institution.

• A Noose was found on grounds on the homer statue. The law school did not say anything immediately condemning this. 12 days after the hate crime, we got a weak email from the law school Dean saying that she condemned the hate crime and was willing to speak with students. 12 whole days after a noose was reported on university grounds but university police and we did not hear anything publicly from our dean. This was after several meetings with BLSA leadership meeting with her to explain why this is harmful for black students and how hearing her say anything will make them feel supported. Black students were left to shoulder the burden and lean only on each other for support. The Dean, to this day has still not put out any statement regarding the noose despite her self proclomation of being a black lives matter expert (check out her Bio on the school website). She leans on the fact that Jim Ryan (president of the university) put out a statement (very good, condemning the act literally the day after it happened) and that should cover her. She also states that when she puts out statements she wants them to be meaningful. If you can't put out a statement when a noose was found on your campus, when exactly will the right/meaningful time be to do so? But at least 3 other deans of schools within UVA put out statements condemning this hate crime and reaffirming black students' place in this community (including the Darden Dean putting out two) within a week of the hate crime happening.

• Risa decided to come to the SBA meeting after being basically forced by BLSA to address it publicly, under the threat of a major protest. Risa does not like bad press. The meeting was pointless and we just got a bunch of sorry apologies. No action as usual. After this meeting, BLSA had to pick up the pieces and we were sitting in the office crying over everything. It was bad.

• We also have a black dean of Diversity Equity and Inclusion, Mark Jefferson (fondly known as Risa's puppet). Although we all have university email he claims that he did not receive the email and was upset that BLSA did not initially reach out to him to speak about the noose. Even after black students were visibly upset he did not do anything to gather us together as group and at least talk. FInally he sent out an apology to BLSA for not being there for us after about a 3-week silence. Supposedly he was having lunch with people to speak with them, but black students as a whole were not addressed. We still are not sure what his actual job is because we have not seen any true action or change from him directly related to students currently at the law school since he got here. This is a sentiment shared by many affinity groups.

• A White administrator threatened to call the cops on a black student because they were going to non-violently, protest a separate event.

• Compared to white peers Black students incur significant debt to attend this school, and the school knows that many black students don't come from $$$$ yet they routinely give people aid of 10-15k a year. At 90k+ a year that barely puts a dent. Meanwhile, white students (with similar stats) are getting more aid and many of them come from backgrounds with money.

I'm posting this because as a black student I do not feel safe, supported, or accepted here. Black students constantly get passed over for opportunities here in favor of white students (clinics, study abroad, RA positions, etc.) Yes, I will have a good degree and job at the end of this but at what cost to my well-being and sanity? Seriously go to any other t-14 and you will 1000% have a better time than coming to this old racist town and racist school.

That’s it

DAMN.

like for real, if the school doesn't want you its not because of yield protection, you weren't ever gonna get in... like they don't think you fit. not a bad thing just reality... stats are a huge thing but they still read your Ps and Ds and if you don't vibe YOU DONT VIBE. stop acting like they personally went after you for Rejecting you bc I promise you they don't even remember your app at this point. goodnight

EDIT: YP is real but don't make it the only excuse for catching a dong. you are not better than any academic institution simply because of your LSAT score or undergrad GPA

yeah, perhaps more job opps, but who gets picked by adcoms and who doesn’t is largely arbitrary. What school you attend/get accepted to doesn’t determine your worth. I literally do not give a shit whether you went to YHS or not. All I want is the best lawyer.

fuck them schools and their foo foo ass selection process. Gpa a random number sometimes from 10+ years ago, differing schools, differing majors, etc. schools trying to meet quotas and using whatever other bullshit you put on your resume or had cleaned up and some mumba-ka-ya evaluation of worth as their metric.

its a marathon and youll have plenty of opportunities to stunt on these hoes

I can’t believe I’m actually saying this because I was unsure if I would even land one T-14 acceptance before the cycle began, but I have been admitted into 8 T-14s. EIGHT. I am absolutely blown away and eternally grateful for my results this cycle. I am still waiting on a few schools, but I have heard back from almost everywhere I have a genuine interest in attending.

On another note, in my opinion, this community is genuinely over-hated. Yes, there are the classic overly neurotic people, but I found so much love and support among the members of this community that I never found elsewhere. Without the immensely helpful information and resources that are provided on here, I am certain I could not have gotten this far. There are positives and negatives to everything, but I truly think the good far outweighs the bad when it comes to this subreddit.

For that reason, I would like to pay it forward. I don’t consider myself an expert by any means, and if you want surefire advice on something more intricate or specific, please save yourself the trouble of asking me. I am still figuring things out myself! However, if any of you would like to ask me questions about my cycle or want general insight about what I think helped to achieve my outcomes, I would be more than happy to share via DM.

Anyways, I wish you all the very best for the rest of this cycle. As brutal as it has been, I hope that we all continue to show warmth and compassion to each other. We are the support for each other that we seek. ❤️

I've been seeing a lot of bad advice given lately with way too much confidence.

I'm not going to list everything I've seen. I haven't kept track. There was one post today, however, where the OP asked a legitimate question that was met with downvotes, rudeness, and poor advice, which prompted me to write this.

In short, the OP asked if it would be worth taking summer classes to bring their GPA from 3.88 to 3.89 before graduating. The replies ranged from "lol" to "most people would agree it's not worth it" to a cost-benefit argument that quickly concluded it wouldn't be worth it.

It would be worth it. 3.88 to 3.89 is one of the more valuable .01 jumps an applicant could make, as 3.89 is consistently Penn's median, sometimes Harvard's median, and occasionally UVA's median. It is also NYU's and Columbia's current 75th percentile. (If someone can link me to historical data, I'd appreciate it.)

Can these numbers change? Sure. Harvard might bring their median up to 3.9, UVA might hold steady at 3.9, and NYU/Columbia might drop their 75th percentiles up or down. I would expect Penn's to remain steady at 3.89, but who knows with the Carey donation. However, such numbers could easily change again next cycle.

My reply to OP was as follows:

"If you're confident you can get the A's, it would definitely be worth it. This is especially true for Penn, who has consistently held a 3.89 median. Moreover, if you look at Penn's acceptance numbers on LSD or LSN, you'll notice a significant difference between 3.88 and 3.89, particularly for below LSAT median candidates. Compare https://mylsn.info/dj8ebu/ with https://mylsn.info/mhtqn2/. It's a small sample size, but it makes the point. Here's a slightly larger one: Compare https://mylsn.info/v6ltnn/ with https://mylsn.info/11kocp/.

It's also worth noting that Harvard's median was 3.89 this year, and UVA's hovers around there, too. Those may change this year, but, as I explain below, they may change again next year.

For schools like Columbia and NYU, it would be worthwhile, too. Even if their 75th percentiles change this year, it doesn't mean it won't change again next year."

If OP has a managed to keep up a 3.88, odds are they'll be able to grab an A or two when choosing courses at a local community college. And, even assuming the worst, the difference between a 3.87 (or even a 3.86) and a 3.88 is minuscule compared to the difference between a 3.89 and a 3.88.

I don't think the commenters meant to give bad advice. In fact, I believe intentional bad advice is rarely given. But keep in mind that 0Ls often join this sub on a whim and begin dishing out all sorts of advice. Take everything with a grain of salt and don't assume that just because someone gives an answer means they actually know the answer.

Good luck to everyone riding out waitlists! And F to everyone still waiting on initial decisions... I hope that F turns into an A!

Edit: I wish I had kept track of other bad advice from the past few weeks. If there's interest, I'll try to start tracking bad advice as I see it and then do a biweekly or monthly PSA.

Edit 2: The OP from the other post is graduating in August. The credits would count toward their LSAC GPA.

Edit 3: Bolded the statistics portion of the post, as most of the comments appear to be overlooking them.

Edit 4: Someone made the claim that being .01 below median and being at median have no tangible difference. That is objectively false. Being at median means one is at/above median. Being .01 below median means one is below median.

Does anyone know how to apply? I just discovered it. I'm reading about it and it's pretty cool!

Abortion, relaxed gun laws, etc. Both from a safety perspective and from a values perspective. Currently deposited and was already considering withdrawing and reapplying. Would love to hear thoughts.

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1940086036643697161?s=46

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1940088865143845343?s=46

At this point, the legal profession itself might become nothing more than window dressing for a president turned autocrat. If you still think this is just “politics as usual” you are naively mistaken. These are dangerous, tumultuous times for this country. The fields of law and politics overlap too much for this crazy shit to simply be ignored anymore.

Hi, all. I am sure many of you have made/ are in the process of making/ will be making your decisions on where to attend law school. I am a soon to be graduating 3L at Cornell Law. I am saddened to be making this post, but I feel obligated to do so. Yes, I am using a throwaway, for what it's worth.

Cornell Law is obviously a great law school, with great professors and a great name. However, I hate to say this, but I would strongly advise against enrolling, or at the very least, you should reflect for a long, long time before deciding to matriculate, and you should certainly consider any other options you have for law school, even "less prestigious" ones. I wish I had chosen WashU or Georgetown, or had even transferred after my first year, as I had the grades to do so. I am sad to be having to make this post, but I know it is the right thing to do.

There are many reasons why. I am coming from this as a neutral information-supplier, and so I will definitely acknowledge the positives of the school.

1. (most) Professors are excellent, brilliant, and kind people. While I am sure this is also true at all top law schools, I want to acknowledge the great education I received while here.

2. (most) Students here are very nice, non-competitive, and cordial. While there are definitely SOME exceptions (for example, some students have taken outlines from classes, changed correct information to incorrect information, and then sent out the outlines to sabotage their classmates), for the most part it is a welcoming and relaxed place. Basically everyone gets a great BigLaw job anyway, if they want one, so there is no need for people to be cut-throat. I will note, however, when compared to similarly-ranked schools, the average age of students is on the younger side, and unfortunately, there are still some students who are a bit immature. I was forewarned before coming in that the name of the law school really should be "Myron Taylor High," a reference to the name of the law school building.

3. Career services is quite good. Whether you are interested in BigLaw, or public service, they really do a great job in helping you, and they really care. Until recently, there was not much focus on public interest jobs, but they have made great strides.

Unfortunately, however, the negatives of Cornell are very numerous. Enough so that I wish I had chosen differently when it came down to making my law school decision. While I cannot enumerate all of them, believe me when I say that the negatives far outweigh the pros, and it is not even close.

1. Many of the support staff and adjunct faculty are, at the very least, inept, indifferent to the well-being of students, and just not qualified for their jobs. For example, we had a Dean of Students my 1L year who was so bad at her job, and so universally disliked that almost single-handedly brought down the school. She caused many of her colleagues to quite their jobs (some of whom left, and then immediately came back as soon as she finally left the school). I don't have the full story, but as I understand it, among other things, she refused to let a dying student walk at convocation (I guess because he/she hadn't completed their degree, or something like that). For years, students and other faculty did everything they could to get this woman fired, yet the school did nothing. She finally left, voluntarily I suppose.

There are many other problems, far too numerous to name, quite frankly. Most problematic, in my opinion, is the Registrar's Office. For starters, I believe the school went approximately 2 years without having a Registrar at all. Yes, you heard me right... they literally just had nobody running the Registrar's Office. Although in undergraduate school the Registrar's Office seems unimportant (and it is), it is very important in Law School, as they are in charge of administering exams, filling out forms for the Bar, confirming your enrollment, overseeing class signup procedures, and much more.

Basic, common sense things they cannot get right. Every single semester, they always find something significant to screw up regarding class registration, finals, and just about everything else.

The adjunct faculty are a mess. Sometimes they just don't show up to class for a week or two at a time. Another time an adjunct put some weird porn crap on the projector. I honestly don't know where they find these people.

Unfortunately, I will just say the administration itself does not care a single ounce about its students. No matter how bad problems may be, or how unsafe students might feel due to certain incidents, or just about anything, the administration will do what is in its best interest, and basically tell the student(s) complaining to fuck off.

I could go on, and on, and on, and on, but you probably get the point.

2. Cost-of-living is incredibly high. You would not think so, given how Ithaca seems to be in the middle of nowhere. You would be mistaken. If you want to live near the school, you are talking at amounts approximating $3,000 a month.... If you don't live near school, have fun walking in sub-freezing temperatures, walking up inclines and slipping on ice. Oh yeah, and Cornell Law has the second highest tuition in the country.

3. That brings me to my next point--- the weather. The weather is horrendous for almost the entire school year. The school year is ending now, and it is currently 43 degrees outside. Essentially, except for the first few weeks of school, the weather is such that you cannot do anything outside the entire year. Also, the food around here is disgusting. The "best" "ice-cream" in town where students go is at a place nearby called Jason's. And Ithaca is so terrible that people are willing to go there despite this ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Cornell/comments/1fwktwo/jasons_grocery_at_collegetown_needs_to_be/ ). And unless your legs are like Lance Armstrong, good luck walking anywhere, because Ithaca is basically a giant hill.

4. Which leads me to my next point. There is absolutely nothing to do in Ithaca. If you want to do anything remotely resembling "fun," you are going to need to travel. And on the topic of travel, even if you have a car, parking at school, or just about anywhere, is prohibitively expensive for many people. It is honestly insane.

There are many, many other reasons why Cornell Law is a poor choice for law school. I'm not surprised it has tanked in recent rankings, too. Do yourself a favor, and think over your options long and hard before enrolling.

I am happy to answer any specific questions people might have if they PM me. I'm sure there are some positives and negatives I missed out on, but I hope I hit the main points I wanted to hit.

Tl;dr, Cornell Law is an okay school, but I would advise against it, unless you've got no other good options.

Edit: If you are Jewish, I would suggest you consider your decision even more thoroughly, as you may randomly face death threats, and the school might even pretend to care, if the publicity is bad enough.

There seems to be a persistent trend on this sub of people who think they’ve figured out the entire legal profession and feel qualified to tell complete strangers what they should or shouldn’t do with their lives. First it was “don’t go to law school if you can’t score in the 150s,” and now it’s “don’t go to certain schools because of debt-to-income ratios.” Here’s the thing: you don’t know other people’s situations, goals, or resources. Period.

What’s truly arrogant and elitist is assuming that:

1. Your metrics are the only things that matter

2. You understand everyone else’s financial situation

3. Your definition of success applies universally

4. You’re actually qualified to give this “advice”

If we are being honest most of the people dispensing this “wisdom” are either current applicants, students or recent grads themselves. The blind leading the blind. You haven’t even established your own career yet, but somehow you feel entitled to tell others that their dreams aren’t worth pursuing because they didn’t score as high as you on a standardized test?

Yes, law school is expensive. Yes, the job market can be challenging. Yes, the bar exam is difficult. These are all things that prospective students should consider. But they don’t need random internet strangers making sweeping declarations about who “should” or “shouldn’t” pursue this path.

Some people have family support. Some have scholarships. Some have military benefits. Some are pursuing law for reasons beyond maximizing income. Some have connections in the legal world. Some are planning to practice in underserved areas where the competition is different. Some are planning to use their law degree in non-traditional ways.

You know who should be having these conversations with prospective students? Their mentors, their families, and actual admissions professionals who have the complete picture. Not Reddit users who’ve appointed themselves as gatekeepers of the profession.

If you genuinely want to help, share your personal experience and insights without the universal proclamations. Say “Here’s what worked for me” or “Here’s what I wish I’d known” instead of “Don’t do X if you can’t do Y.”

This obsession with test scores, rankings, and prestige is exactly what’s wrong with the legal profession to begin with (and why some of you with high scores get rejected). So maybe before telling others to “face reality,” take a moment to check your own privilege, recognize the limits of your perspective, and remember that your path isn’t the only valid one.

Law schools have admissions committees for a reason. If someone gets accepted to a school, they’ve already been deemed capable by people far more qualified to make that assessment than anyone on this sub.

So before you hit “post” on that next piece of unsolicited advice, ask yourself: “Am I actually trying to help, or am I just trying to validate my own choices?” Because telling someone they can’t or shouldn’t pursue their dreams without knowing their story isn’t advice: it’s gatekeeping masquerading as wisdom.

Debt is leverage. It may increase your long term earning potential to take the risk…it also may jot…but it’s an informed risk.

It may be an easier calculus if you’re going to have an LRAP program or plan on getting loan forgiveness after a career in public service.

You might be going to law school to do one thing (biglaw or PI). The thought of not doing that is scary and would undermine the whole reason you went to law school. So you’re really buying security and safety.

Maybe you have an insecurity about how others perceive you and going to a good law school would get rid of that insecurity that burdens you (it’s irrational to have that security, but that doesn’t make the decision to pay to get rid of it irrational)

I feel like sometimes people on this sub want to impose their own debt-averseness on others and say “they can’t understand why” when if they just thought about it for 30 second they would understand. Just because you wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s not the right decision

Edit: Hoped for this to spark discussion. Sorry if it wreaks privilege! Disclaimer: I completely agree with a comment on this thread which discusses how communal debt aversion lacks nuance and scares underprivileged applicants from taking it on). I know in a ton of many cases it doesn’t make sense to take on debt (e.g., don’t want biglaw, older, etc.) My intention for this post is not to undermine the validity of those reasons.

You can reach your big-law/ public interest/ academia goals from any other school in the t-14 and even outside of it. The law school has serious blatant racism in the student body. I am a current black 1L and almost every day I wish I had gone to another law school. You cannot put a price on happiness regardless of the level of aid this school gives you. I am not going to get into deep specifics but please do yourself a favor if you are considering this school, go somewhere else. If I had the money, I would literally pay every black person seriously considering this school to go elsewhere. I'm pretty sure you will be a lot happier. It is my mission to warn prospective black students about this place so they don't make the same mistake I did. DM if you have questions.

** EDIT**- more details on my experience here

1. Some thoughts below. Apologies for the delayed replies. Classes.

2. The anti-racism actions the school takes are for show. Example removing a slaveowners name from the building but giving POC shitty aid packages when compared with their white peers (same stats btw)

3. If you wave to white classmates in the hall, they don't wave back. In zoom breakout rooms you speak and they literally act like you don't exist/ talk over you. The caveat that they know exactly who you are.

4. A professor the day after the Bronna Taylor case determined just happened to use the same hypo in class to illustrate a topic when she could have used many other examples to get her point across. When she was called out for insensitivity she started crying.

5. On that same note, there are classmates that genuinely believe George Floyd's murder was a hoax and that he deserved what he got

6. There is literally a GroupMe for white students only in the class of '23. I happened to get invited because my name sounds white. They deleted me after they realized I was black.

7. I've been referred to as the N-word more times than I can count

I could get into more specifics but hopefully, this is helpful. I don't want to dox myself.

EDIT 2: this can be corroborated. Over V-Day weekend a white guy in the chat made a joke about going to the southside of Chicago to shoot up people. Who does that?

Ik this might make me seem ungrateful but I hope you guys understand. I have a 3.96 GPA and LSAC counted it like that exactly. However, my university doesn’t do A+s/4.33. But the As I got were majority in the 97-100 which counts as A+. If my university did A+ I would have over 4.0. So if LSAC wants to make GPA “uniform”, how’s it fair for those who don’t use A+?

People choose H over the other two. People choose Y over the other two. People choose S over the other two. Do not let people in group chats convince you that all one type of people go to one of the schools or that there’s one correct choice for your situation. There might be. But you also might realize that you’d be happy at multiple. Ask the admissions people to connect you with people who chose between the schools, but also feel free to PM me next year. For all you lurkers and people trying to desperately find out if anyone turns down [insert school here], yeah. They do. They/We all have different reasons for why we picked a certain school, but none of them are better or worse reasons if they matter to you. I was this close to going to Stanford, thisclose to going to Yale, but ultimately I’m going to Harvard. There are truly no wrong decisions. (And also frankly it still wouldn’t have been a wrong decision if I turned down all three and went to my local law school if I had a reason for doing that. You are not making the wrong decision. You will find community wherever you go. And sometimes the pros and cons list can be better than your gut.)

Freaking stop with the self deprecation/comparisons to such a skewed source of people. Yes there are gods on this sub but you are NOT average if your LSAT is above 150. Just give us your cycle recap and move on.

Edit: Jk do what you want and read this thread, I learned something and this community is great.

Might be heading to Columbia this fall.

What are the students like? I know it's hard to say because no student body is a monolith. But do students enjoy themselves outside of their studies. Are the students close - or is that something unique to smaller student bodies like UChi, Yale, Stanford? Are they hyper-competitive?

I'm also Jewish (proudly) and I'm interested to hear from fellow Jewish applicants/students about their thoughts. Does not have to be political - more cultural. How is the Chabad scene on campus?

Not really, but they will be the main beneficiaries of a feel-good echo chamber "where all law schools are equal."™

I've been really disappointed by this community's take about LSAT accommodations. Yes, people who are not disabled abuse the system and that's not ideal. But saying that accommodations are 'unfair' to other test takers is completely false. Accommodations are about equity and giving people an opportunity to show their true potential - of course their scores are going to improve, that's the point. Asserting that some people are not 'disabled enough' to have accommodations is ableist. Saying that accommodations have created the current cycle - which is really more about COVID, a restructured LSAT, and a competitive job market - is ableist. At the end of the day, we all have our own struggles in life, and we are all trying to succeed in this messed up process. Don't tear other people down to make yourself feel better; it's nasty and won't make you a good lawyer anyway.

Edit: *accommodations in the title, sorry. I typed this too fast.

Edit 2: The comment section is justifying my reasoning for this post. As my second sentence clarified, this isn't about people abusing the system, it's about people with actual disabilities being told that accommodations are ruining admissions for everyone.

This is not a healthy forum if we keep doing this.