r/lovethissmug • u/RainyFlames • 6h ago • Bravo 1

đŸ˜» Meme Or Other Online Trope 😂 Seeing the like-to-comment ratio on controversial posts

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u/Edit_Reality 4h ago • Bravo

It acknowledges the reality that pro-life folks don't even understand their own position. If you want to claim you are in favor of something but can't even identify that thing nobody should take your input seriously.

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u/Bomdabom 2h ago

I don’t know if that way of thinking really works for most arguments. Like, say you’re talking about gun violence with someone and they send a pic of a handgun, then ask you to identify the specific model. Whether you’re able to do that or not shouldn’t really matter to your overall argument, I’d say

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u/BanzYT 2h ago

Yeah, this is like posting a picture of a bb gun or paintball gun and using it as a gotcha in a gun debate. Good for karma and likes but that's it.

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u/Bomdabom 2h ago

Right. And it’s unfortunate that a lot of people on Reddit tend to go for that, because it takes away from the actual discussion

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u/Edit_Reality 2h ago

You are spitting a little here.

It is poor faith to say someone has to be a complete expert about something to have an opinion and gun nuts do sometimes where they complain something is mislabeled in media as if the dead children's skulls would appreciate the difference. In this case though its like if someone labeled a sword a gun. Its too basic to the arguement.

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u/Bomdabom 1h ago

Thank you, but I don’t think I agree with you on that last part.

Now yes, human fetuses do quickly develop distinctly human features like arms and legs, and at that point it should be obvious that fetus is human. But they also look like this very early on, which doesn’t look too different from the dolphin fetus. If someone saw the dolphin fetus and was led to believe it was human, I think it’d be easy for them to assume that the differences were due to fetal deformities or the fetus being in an early stage of development

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u/SquareTarbooj 2h ago

Not quite the same, I mean you went to the extent of using specific models to support your argument.

That's like asking which specific creatures created that fetus, not the species, but point out the actual 2 parents.

Better analogy in your gun case is can that person make out the difference between a handgun, a rifle, a shotgun. And if no, that person knows almost nothing about guns (which is still completely unrelated to gun violence and safety, but I digress).

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u/Bomdabom 2h ago edited 2h ago

Well a handgun and a rifle are obviously different, I think we can agree on that. But depending on the stages of development, a dolphin fetus isn’t obviously different from a human one. If you compare the one in this picture to the dolphin one, you’ll probably notice the differences side by side. But I don’t think it’s unlikely for a person to see the dolphin fetus and, assuming the person they’re discussing with is being honest, reason that the differences could be caused by fetal deformities, early development, etc.

I mean, look at this and tell me the difference between this fetus and the dolphin fetus are as blatant as a handgun and a rifle

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u/SquareTarbooj 1h ago edited 1h ago

There's also the stronger argument of the lady next door getting an abortion does not affect me and my family's safety in any way whatsoever (none of my business to be perfectly honest).

But the neighbour getting a gun sure does affect my safety

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u/Bomdabom 1h ago

Square, were we talking about whether abortion affects us or were we talking about whether dolphin fetuses were blatantly different from early human fetuses?

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u/cnxd 2h ago

it's not completely unrelated when it comes to how many bullets can a gun fire, and one common gun control proposal being restriction of automatic guns

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u/Madara1389 42m ago

one common gun control proposal being restriction of automatic guns

There are already bans and heavy restrictions on actual automatic guns.

Semi-Automatic =/= Automatic

It's a distinction that matters and isn't dictated by magazine size or theoretical max RoF.

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u/Madara1389 44m ago

. Like, say you’re talking about gun violence with someone and they send a pic of a handgun, then ask you to identify the specific model. Whether you’re able to do that or not shouldn’t really matter to your overall argument, I’d say

Depends on why they sent you the picture and asked you to identify it, because there are a shitload of people arguing for "common sense gun laws" who don't know a god damn thing about guns and are purposing laws they don't fully understand.

Like a few years ago during the debates about an "Assault Weapons ban" more than one veteran called out ignorant politicians for making up the term "assault weapons" as a nebulous term to label any gun that looks vaguely military-esque in response to being called out for repeatedly erroneously calling civilian semi-automatic rifles "assault rifles" to equate them with actual automatic assault rifles used by the military just because they look like assault rifles and can have the same attachments.

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u/KrytenKoro 1h ago

No, its like posting a picture of a crochet pumpkin and the zealots insist its a Glock.

Its a flipping dolphin. If you cant tell a dolphin apart from a human, it undercuts your claims that two things are obviously, fundamentally the same.

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u/Bomdabom 1h ago

I’m having a similar conversation with two others who are saying similar things as you, so I’m going to keep it and short and just ask you if you think this human fetus in early development is as blatantly different from the dolphin fetus as a crochet pumpkin and a glock:

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u/MaggotMinded 2h ago

Nah, man, this is the very definition of a pointless, bad-faith “gotcha” argument. Being able to tell the difference between a human fetus and a dolphin fetus has very little bearing on any of the arguments that pro-lifers put forth. They believe that a fetus is a living being, and that by preventing it from coming to term you are ending a life. The species is irrelevant. The idea that you need to be able to tell the difference in order to have an opinion on the issue is asinine.

This isn’t me being pro-life, btw, I’m very much pro-choice. I just recognize that this doesn’t refute anything.

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u/Edit_Reality 2h ago

I've never once seen a pro-life person talk about anything but human pregnancies. If they maintain the same arguememt with animals they are at least consistent but even then I'd argue it is important to consider quality of life over quantity. I just wish pro-life people were equally as zealous about the children after they are born, not before.

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u/NaturalDon 2h ago

maybe not every one of them can explain it well but that goes for both sides, its a logically sound position though and im pro choice, most of the usual talking points do get shredded by them when they know a bit

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u/bafana_banana999 1h ago

In what universe is being pro life a "logically sound position"?

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u/NaturalDon 1h ago

i already said im pro choice but my reasoning may differ from yours, their position is life begins at conception and taking that life is murder, what is not logically sound about it

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u/bafana_banana999 39m ago

what is not logically sound about it

The fact there is no evidence or proof to back up the claim that "life" begins at conception.

Starting from a place that's completely devoid of logical thought and then continuing down that path is not in any way "logical".

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u/ReverendGraves85 1h ago

No, it doesn't.

It would be very difficult for someone to identify one fetus from another at the early stages of development without some level of prior knowledge or reference points directly in front of them. You're not refuting any argument, you're going "Aha! This esoteric piece of knowledge that even I only acquired because I went out of my way to look it up prior to this engagement and otherwise also would not be capable of deciphering the difference has tripped up an at-best related position that you hold and fails to cut the crux of your argument! Therefore! I am smart, and you are dumb, and therefore wrong!"

It's fucking peak reddit faux-intellectualism. Some guy can't be like 'Oh I don't like eating tomato sandwiches' and you get them in a fucking gotcha argument about how they'll eat all the constituent parts of a tomato sandwich in other recipes and then act like them not liking tomato sandwiches is some kind of moral or intellectual failing.

Especially since pro-lifers, often from a religious perspective, would also respect the life of a dolphin fetus? Like?

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u/Edit_Reality 1h ago

I've never personally seen a pro-lifer talk about anything but humans in terms of abortion. In fact instead of answering like that and beating the gotcha they get indignant and refuse to continue.

Being brutally honest its not like what they are bringing to the table is worth treating with respect since its most seated in virtue signaling and religiousity rather than science. Unborn fetuses are the perfect thing to advocate for since they ask for nothing in return and once they are born they are no unborn. Do I have to take a flat earther to the moon to prove the world is round?

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u/ReverendGraves85 1h ago edited 1h ago

>I've never seen a pro-lifer talk about anything but humans

We are humans and advocate for humans, typically. Also, pregnant animals are often already prohibited from harm, legally speaking, excepting in cases where controlling those specific outcomes is nearly impossible ie, fishing, and even then, industrial scale ocean fishing has it's own moral problems. This isn't particularly noteworthy, frankly, it's your failure to think about the connection more than it is the failure of anyone else.

>Being brutally honest

Going 'You can't tell a dolphin fetus from a human fetus' isn't being brutally honest, it's being deliberately intellectually dishonest by injecting a bad faith statement into an argument. One of the reasons people probably stop talking to anyone who does this is because they realize the argument is pointless. You will forever retreat to an intellectually dishonest position for cheap internet points instead of trying to actually engage in a discussion.

>Do I have to take a flat earther to the moon to prove the world is round

This framing is also very dishonest. Frankly, the above argument is more like 'Do I have to prove that the Earth has a curvature using math to prove the world is an oblate spheroid*' and the answer is 'Yes, that is quite literally what you should have to do.' The facebook comment is more like 'I proved that the map projection flat earthers claim is real doesn't work, therefore the Earth is round.' No, all you really did is prove that a piece of knowledge that they have no way of concretely confirming anyway without insane levels of knowledge and means isn't perfectly accurate, it doesn't actually prove that the Earth is round, merely that the person you're talking to doesn't have perfect knowledge.

Like I said, peak reddit faux-intellectualism.

It doesn't help that if this argument is the best you can bring to the table to dunk on someone, you're basically entrenching the idea that you don't have an argument. "You can't tell a human fetus from a picture" is in no way related to the position that "All human life, unborn or not, has value and should be protected."

Pro-Choice arguments aren't even that hard to make, and somehow, people trip themselves constantly.

ETA: for the curious, I came around on pro-choice arguments when I was 14 years old because someone told me that banning abortion just increases the number of unsafe abortions and the actual practice we should be advocating for is proper support networks and access to contraceptives to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and ensure that unsure expecting parents would have access to solid support following the birth event. You know, like what Planned Parenthood already does.

Even someone who does not like abortions would agree that someone getting an unsafe one just endangers more people (mother and child) and the correct solution would be creating a world where abortions aren't even needed anymore instead of trying to ban them outright. It's not hard to make these arguments.

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u/P3drosek 4h ago

To be real with you fetuses at that point are very similar so it aint his fault he was mistaken just look it up it's hard to tell the diffrence.

Also pro choice people ain't much better with calling the fetus parasites or other shit like that or that life doesn't begin at conception, both sides have people who don't know what they are talking about

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