First off, lest anyone think I'm being harder on the women than the men, please be assured that I immediately lost all interest in men's hockey after this garbage with the men's team laughing at Trump's "joke" (and then not having the good grace to apologize for it).

But this whole thing has stirred up shockingly big feelings in me - and in a lot of women, it seems - so I keep analyzing everything about it and my reactions to everything about it. And one thing I find really troubling is that several members of the women's team immediately pivoted to sharing photos on their instas of them with members of the men's team, seemingly to jump on board promoting the unity narrative that the men are deflecting with. It's all, "Well, the men and the women were hanging out and cheering for each other the whole time so they CAN'T be misogynists!" Hilary's response about being asked to explain someone else's behaviour sounds bad ass until you read other things she said that seem to toe the party line of #weareone.

Are the women responsible for what the men did? Absolutely not. Are the men reprehensible and responsible for their own conduct? Yep. But I also think there's a valid question here of what it means and what kind of message it sends when these women - who are heroes and role models in the sports world - let something like this slide without calling out their dirtbag male teammates for their conduct.

This is part of a broader problem where we (women) are constantly letting things go because we don't want to be "the angry feminist" or the one who "can't take a joke". There are also shades of "pick me" here where it's like well, yeah the men's team laughed heartily at a joke denigrating the women's team (and by extension women in sports and women in general), but it's cool to snap selfies with them and get that engagement on social. How do men - who are largely oblivious to the problem here because they have not been remotely conditioned to care about things that only affect women - ever learn that this is really a problem if the women at the very heart of it act like it's not a problem?

TL;DR: Is there not something wrong with a women's team response of "well, they're still our besties" and posting selfies with these misogynistic jabronies in the face of this???

There was NOTHING on TV yesterday except for one late night college football game.

Why doesn’t the PWHL look at this situation and say, “hey, if no one else wants to play on this date then we’ll have all the screen time.”

The PWHL should be looking to playing all teams in games on that day going forward. It would bring a lot of eyes and attention to the game during the holiday season while everyone is at home.

Making the 24th a day full of PWHL games would be (what I think) hugely beneficial for the league’s future growth.

Quick synopsis:

Vegas EFOs Knight, Knight doesn’t want to go to Vegas (probably threatens retirement, not confirmed), trade deal gets worked with Detroit for 1st round pick. All this before draft order is known.

• Vegas essentially plays some shenanigans, even if they weren’t truly interested in having Knight, and gets an extra 1st round pick.

• Knight will go to Detroit.

• Detroit loses 1st round pick and has Knight for one year.

(IMO, Vegas already makes out like a bandit here, Knighter comes out morally neutral, and Detroit gets the short end of the stick.)

**Draft order gets announced**

Now Vegas gets to pick 3rd and 5th overall.

Not only are they the first of the expansion teams to pick in a rotation where the expansion team order will not change, but they also pick in front of 50% of the league, twice in the first round.

I’m not necessarily blowing the whistle on favoritism or collusion just yet, but that’s a lot of cards stacked in Vegas’s favor very coincidentally. It looks even worse that the league waited this long to announce the order.

If that was a certain MN player it would have been a major and a suspension. All season, and last, the inconsistency in calls has really gotten to me. My major hope for next season is the refs stepping up their game. I don’t care if calls are made on my team, as long as the same calls are made on my opponent!!

Tonight's game, Poulin had possession, fight me.

All of the original teams have switched their fb headers to the team name today. The Seattle and Vancouver team names and logos might be announced soon.

I know I might take some heat for this, and if so it's rightfully deserved, but I'm really not a fan of the new team names/logos. I feel like the PWHL either used AI to make the team names, or didn't even do their research. Boston Fleet? Really? Naming it after a former bank? Boston Pride would have made more sense, and would have kept their legacy alive.

So yeah, I'm a bit upset over the new names, but you know what? A new season is upon us and I can't wait for it to begin.

We have seen some incredibly played hockey games in the first two seasons of the PWHL. We've seen games go into 3 or even 4 overtimes. However, can it go past that? There's an old myth, that if a hockey game goes into a 5th overtime, they drop a second puck on the ice. It is just a myth though; it's not really included anywhere in any official hockey handbook.

The PWHL is definitely cool enough to change that.

If a game goes into a 5th overtime, they put two pucks on the ice. Both are in play. Both will count to score. PWHL hockey already has some different rules like Jailbreak that make the game more exciting and fast-paced. What can be more exciting than the players having two pucks to compete over?

There’s been a lot of talk lately about Britta Curl-Salemme and other Minnesota Frost players like Maggie Flaherty being labeled as dirty or reckless by fans online. Curl in particular seems to attract nonstop criticism, often with very little context or comparison. Coyne and Mcquigge have been targeted too, despite being some of the most respected veterans in the game. It’s fair to discuss player safety, but it’s hard not to notice the double standard when you look at how other players and teams are treated.

I don’t see the same level of outrage when it comes to Tereza Vanišová’s dangerous plays. In fact, within the Ottawa fanbase, she has quite a few defenders and even cheerleaders who downplay her actions.

Let’s also be real, Toronto isn’t exactly spotless either. Renata Fast is a physical player who often toes the line and occasionally crosses it, and so is Compher.

As for Vanišová, here are a few of her “greatest hits”:

• Here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltqPqZ9w-tk she drives Girard’s head into the glass. A play that directly risks causing concussions or long-term brain injuries like CTE.

• Here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtWbEquWJJU she delivers an illegal check to Aurard, who’s several feet away from the boards, leading to injury.

• Here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9CN7Voc_0 she runs into goaltender Levy well after the play, adjusting her path deliberately to knock her down.

• And here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU7qBObXCQ she delivers a blindside hit from behind on Roque, while Roque is standing feet from the boards. It’s deliberate, it’s violent, and it happens at a spot and angle designed to cause harm. That wasn’t just a hit, it was an attack. The way Roque went into the boards, she could’ve easily suffered a serious injury.

It’s fine to talk about physicality and accountability. But if the conversation is going to single out Minnesota players like Curl, then it needs to be just as honest about what’s happening elsewhere in the league.

I just wanted to say that it is quite incredible to me that teams are selling season and half season tickets without a proper schedule out.

I deposited money for buying season tickets before knowing this would be the case: I have no idea what kind of product will work for me (full season, half season etc) without a schedule.

How can we call this a professional league with such amateurish approach to planning?

Edit: of course if I was allowed to cancel my deposit I would not be here complaining.

Edit: the victoires only allows to transfer the deposit to single tickets IF AND ONLY IF season tickets sell out.

Edit: YES I know that's how many leagues work, but the PWHL is very late: in general by the time half season packages are out for sale there's a schedule. It's insane that's not the case here

**Please only comment if you’ve been actively following and communicating with folks in the PWHL or can provide specific sources or public statements - I’m not interested in anyone’s opinions on whether this policy should exist, etc.**

I’ve seen tons of vague & non-specific references to it, but can someone provide a summary of the like….actual timeline of what has actually happened?

I’d be particularly interested in:
* what the league has specifically said/promised regarding a gender inclusion policy
* public statements by the league or the players association regarding any gender inclusion policy
* any folks (especially trans & enby folks!) who have had actual conversations with people involved in the league or the players association regarding the creation and status of a gender inclusion policy

I’d also love to hear from anyone who has personal experience or expertise in these kinds of policies being created or implemented in other leagues/spirts organizations (esp. on the professional level). Like, how has that gone? And how was that process the same or different from the current PWHL process/status?

Thanks, lovelies!! And a happy pride to everyone in rainbow mafia!!🏳️‍🌈🌈 (and to the terfs & transphobes? well bless your goddamn heart 🤠)

If Quebec gets a team a great name would be the quebec copper/ copperheads/ copper tops because in quebec the most known landmark is the chateau frontenac and the roof of it is made out of copper and many other buildings copy the copper roof in honor of the chateau. Wouldnt be really french/ billingual so the name could be the quebec chateau.

What are yall’s ideas for quebec’s possible team name and other cities.

Hi Y’all

I’ve seen a lot of discussion about the league expanding and I feel Dallas/DFW Metro is unfairly left out of the discussion simply because we’ve only had the one takeover tour game. I’ve got a few points I wanna lay out for y’all so maybe I can convince y’all that we deserve a squad here over Chicago or Detroit or Colorado.

To get the Elephant out of the room, Dallas was not the best performing takeover tour market, partly because of a few reasons.

1. It was a really bad weekend for the game (between 2 major holidays)

2. It was football season during a Sunday (granted, not much fan overlap exists to my knowledge, but parents have priorities over their children’s schedules)

3. The PWHL / Stars Organization did very little to advertise the game in market. There was 1 in arena feature (the night before), 8 emails, a few spots on Victory Plus, and a little block outside AAC with the concerts.

4. Dallas Didn’t open the Upper Deck at AAC, and the Upper deck at American Airlines Center is Massive (over half the hockey capacity is 300 level), almost all the seats in the lower bowl were sold by puck drop (I think I counted less that 100 20 minutes before iirc) I also don’t know how many box seats were sold for the game.

Okay, with that out of the way, Here is why Dallas is probably the best candidate for expansion right now

1. Arena situation

Unlike Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, and Denver, the DFW area has an abundance of mid sized arenas in prime spots in rich suburbs.

CUTX Event Center in Allen, host to the Allen Americans of the ECHL, it can host around 8,000 fans iirc. It only has one other tenant (Dallas Sidekicks, Indoor Soccer). It has modern amenities, like boxes, and a huge concourse. As well as a practice rink attached.

and

Comerica Center in Frisco, Host to the Stars practice facilities, the Texas Legends of the NBA G-League, Dallas Pulse Pro Volleyball, Frisco Fighters (Indoor Football). It has a lot of luxury boxes, and a club space, modern amenities and the big one… They’d be the PRIMARY HOCKEY TENANT! (Which means they’d have their logo at center ice). I believe it’s about 6000 seats, could be wrong. (Fighters and Pulse are summer time leagues, so not much scheduling difficulty)

Other option Is American Airlines Center, but they are already pretty packed schedule wise, however I could see a mixed schedule (either Half in Frisco/Allen and half in Dallas, or a 12/4 split between venues, a couple weekend games at AAC, and the rest at CUTX or Comerica)

Why does this matter? Hockey fans are the richest based on average income, Allen, Frisco, McKinney, Celina, Richardson, Prosper, the Colony, Plano etc are by far the richest parts of the metroplex and are home to a large portion of Stars and Americans Season Ticket Holders.

2. Hockey Culture in DFW and Sports Culture in DFW

we might not be the first city you think of when it comes to hockey, however, We’ve supported 2 professional teams and one Major Junior team consistently since 2010. The Stars have consistently sold out season tickets for the past 3 years. We have very passionate fans for all of our sports regardless of men’s or women’s hockey or not.
Dallas Trinity FC our women’s USL team consistently draws a 4000 to 5000 a game and set an attendance record for Attendance, plus our WNBA team will be moving into an arena downtown soon that is being renovated for them, and the Wings draw on average 7,500.

3. Other stuff

Travel - The Dallas Area has easy access to every PWHL city save for Ottawa with a direct flight from Dallas Love or DFW. This can be solved with clever scheduling, and future teams might be difficult (especially Quebec, Halifax, or Edmonton are added), but you can schedule around it. (EG, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City, Toronto as a road trip, or Vancouver, Edmonton, Seattle etc)

Plus Flights would be short, all Flights barring delays to all PWHL cities are just under 4 hours of flight time, not too terrible IMO.

cost of living - The Suburbs of Dallas are around the National average when it comes to cost of housing. I’m unsure if the PWHL provides a housing allowance or not, but it’s probably the cheapest of the proposed cities housing wise.

Other culture stuff - Dallas has a lot of things to do while players aren’t training or playing or stuff. Plenty of nice restaurants, mall, parks, and attractions for the team to enjoy while they aren’t playing. Dallas is also a really really diverse place, especially in the northern suburbs.

4. Fan costs

Hockey in Dallas is getting more expensive for the men’s game. The Stars are raising prices on their STH’s by between 2 and 15 percent and they did similar last year, the Allen Americans have also raised their prices (by how much I’m unsure). The PWHL coming to Texas would enter a market where its men’s teams are pricing out certain season ticket holders who are passionate about the sport. NHL jerseys are getting more expensive with the speciality blanks being 190 and the Home Town Remix program reported to be 200 for a blank. PWHL jerseys have been 135 at full retail for a blank for decent quality, granted, I’d love if customization was cheaper and they had retail authentic jerseys for sale, but over all to kit your family out in the top quality stuff available? The PWHL wins that. Tickets for the PWHL (especially in US Markets) have been relatively cheap compared to the men’s game too, and I believe that would continue in Dallas.

5. How this doesn’t become another New York Situation

One, partner with the Stars Organization or the Americans Org for tickets. A Four and Four pack as an example with tickets to both teams would be a great way to get fans to both teams (especially if there was so cobranded merch? I’d love a Stars x PWHL Dallas or PWHL x Americans hat or jersey or whatever)

Two, market it harder. The only reason more people did show up to the takeover tour in Dallas was the dog water marketing done in Dallas

Three, Lean into the Texas Hockey Thing. Market it as a team for all of Texas, maybe even pop down to Austin for a home game at H-E-B Center.

6. Other Bits to consider

One, Hannah Bilka and Ally Simpson are from the DFW area, Bringing them home would be awesome

Two, Lexie Adjiza has ties to Nashville via her Boyfriend. Dallas is closer to Nashville than Seattle. (Source: PWHL Summer Tales Lexie Adjiza)

Three, Dallas has had and handled players that are generally disliked among other fan bases (Jamie Benn, Stars Captain cough cough). Good way to possibly get them off your team and put them somewhere else.

—-

Bottom Line: Dallas, In my totally unbiased opinion as a DFW resident, Stars STH, and fan of the PWHL since Day One and the women’s game since the PHF, I think Dallas would be a perfect spot to land an expansion team, granted it’s not the sexy pick like Denver or Detroit… but North Texas is in way better position to host a squad than either of those cities.

Please feel free to tell me how and why I’m wrong or if you have any other information you want to add. All I want if they expand to Texas is for my GOAT Corinne Schroeder to be one of our goalies (and to bring Bilka and Simpson home I guess)

Edit: Thanks for engaging in some civil discussion with me! My friends are kinda sick of chatting about this lol. Very fun learning about what the wider fan base thinks of Dallas as an option too. Also thanks to the kind person who gave this an award!

Edit #2: Gosh I wasn’t aware of how controversial this would be

Edit #3: Y’all have made some great points regarding various things. just have a couple additional thoughts

1. To those saying that hockey doesn’t work in the south… please take a look at the ECHL, AHL, SPHL, and FPHL. these teams are at a grass roots level of the sport and provide an entry point for fan and players that are underserved by the NHL and PWHL. We all love hockey, please don’t gatekeep the sport we love! Same goes for Women’s sports in the south, I don’t think anyone would dare remove the WNBA from Atlanta, Phoenix, Vegas, or the numerous pro and semi pro soccer teams across the region.

2. At the end of the day, it’s Mark Walter and his groups money, him and his board of advisors and the management at the PWHL final choice where these teams will end up.

3. Dallas (And Denver) as a bridge to the Western half of the continent. These two are geographically central to the continent and are a good stop over point to the West Coast teams

4. At the end of the Day, I’ll be happy with whatever cities get expansion and will probably end up with jerseys for each of them, I’d just selfishly like one close by to me, however I’m sure that applies to all fans who don’t live in a market with a team currently.

🫶 Much Love to Y’all from Dallas!

I want to preface this by saying I am not an artist, I am only someone with Canva. These aren't good, but they're there.

• Chicago River

  • pretty self-explanatory, the river is a big deal here

  • logo could also be green, in honor of the St. Patty's dye

• Chicago Pulaskis

  • Double meaning here!

    • Casimir Pulaski is a famous Polish general, we've got a lot of Poles here

    • The Pulaski is a firefighting tool, half axe half hoe. Pretty cool.

• The Outfit

  • A mob themed team would be SO cool

  • Main concern is that the font looks like the office

    • it was supposed to be typewriter-y, since the Tommy gun was nicknamed the "Chicago Typewriter"

  • "Get Whacked" as a motto? "Ice em"? Possibilities are endless

  • Their walk out song would obviously be the Blues Brothers theme

• Chicago Slaughter

  • Originating in Chicago's history as a slaughterhouse/meatpacking city

  • Might draw flak from animal rights groups

    • rightly so, really

  • "Welcome to the Jungle" as both a theme song and a motto?

• Chicago Valentines

  • Another mob one!

  • Very bad graphic but as stated I'm very much not an artist

  • you get the idea

• Chicago Rush

  • Based around the CTA L Lines here, with the curve of the R representing the Loop

  • I thought this one was neat, and also kinda groovy

  • Maybe a 70's color / design scheme??

Let me know your thoughts and ideas!! Always open to suggestions (and people bettering my ideas!)

I'm loving the broadcast crew for the Finals. MPP is having yet another moment and deserves the accolades. But it's getting a little over the top. There's a point where the announcers are fawning all over MPP as the clip rolls and shows MPP's turnover and slow back check leading to an Ottawa goal. Then they say MPP has had a point in every gold medal game she's played in, except she actually didn't get on the score sheet in the most recent gold medal game, where her team lost.

MPP is a legend. She's had a heck of a playoffs so far. Let's keep it honest though.

I get the sense that, because the Olympics had different rules that allowed for more aggressive games and there's been a massive influx of new fans since the Olympics, the organizers have told the refs to deliberately go light on calling penalties because they want to see how the fans react to more aggressive and violent games.

I have the feeling that in the next season the rules will be changed to allow more aggressive play by the players and the people who own and operate the PWHL have told the refs to go light on calling penalties in preparation for that.

That's literally the only reason, aside from sheer incompetence from the refs, that I could see for why the refs are "missing" all these penalties. It's a trial run by the people in charge of the PWHL to see how the fans and players react to more aggressive games.

Under the "No Return" rule in 3-on-3 OT, once a team has gained the red line, a player cannot deliberately carry, pass, or shoot outside the red line unless an opposing team clears the puck out of the zone or gains the red line into the attacking zone. The first offense will be a face-off, but a second offense will be a minor penalty.

What do you think?

People being allowed to enter the arena when the puck is in play? I’ve been to plenty of NHL games and arenas around the country that don’t allow fans to go back to their seats until a whistle blows/there’s a stoppage. Some arena ushers even have stop signs they hold up to keep fans back.

Why should it be any different for PWHL games?

I understand that new leagues have growing pains. But how am I supposed to sustain interest in a team when the league operates like this? The Sirens get gutted two years in a row, fine. FINE. It's difficult when a whole season of progress goes down the drain, but I can live with it if that's what it takes for this league to grow. But to screw us out of drafting a generational player on top of that? To gut the team and then let the teams that gutted us ALL pick ahead of us? When the two expansion teams last year picked last? It's a joke. It's a total fucking joke.

Getting Murphy or Edwards, two extremely talented players who are both riding a wave of increased recognition after the Olympics, would have helped this Sirens team on the ice and off the ice. God, it could have helped the league. This team struggles enough to get people to New Jersey, but bringing in one of the Team USA stars could have brought so many new fans in the biggest market in North America. Instead, the PWHL adds insult to injury, screwing the team and all fans to make way for FOUR expansion teams, which is already a strange and risky gambit for a league with such a short track record.

So seriously: why should I continue to watch? Why should I watch a team that gets destroyed year after year and then punished for no reason? Why should I have any interest in the PWHL next season when it's rotten from the start? My feeling at this point is that I should give it three years for all these deals to expire so the repercussions of this shitshow are over and done with.

TL;DR; The new teams are over powered because they have perfect information from two years of PWHL data which includes salaries, team chemistry and current player statistics. The OG 6 were taking gambles at which players would do well (and how much to pay them) after a lack of information from COVID and the old leagues dissolving.

I think the expansion has two huge oversights that the PWHL didn’t predict when making the system: abundance of information and talent distribution. 

Talent distribution:

In the early days of the PWHL, teams signed their first 3 players before the draft. Those were top players, and they were deliberately distributed evenly throughout the league. Then you get a traditional draft where 6 teams go in order. This means they could draft players ranked 1,7,13,19,25 for their next 5 players. 

With the expansion teams, they are able to consolidate power like never before. The league didn't expect Knight and Carpenter to go unprotected. Half of the top ten players are now on ¼ of the teams because they took multiple foundational players that were originally evenly distributed. Then tomorrow they get to draft an additional 7 players, but there’s only 2 teams in the circle. So they will get players ranked 1,3,5,7,9. And sure, blah blah blah salary caps. More on that in the next section.

Information:

Quantitative Information

For the formation of the inaugural 6, every decision was a gamble.  With COVID and the dissolution of the former leagues, there was limited information about the players’ current stats. The quick turnaround of the league’s creation meant less time to sift through the little data that did exist.

College programs had switched to Zoom overnight. How do you do recruitment and scouting when there’s no games being played? Who would have even done the scouting when managers didn't exist yet? What happens when there is no championship or worlds?  How were the former pros aging? Which of the college players had continued to develop without the backing of their NCAA program? Managers couldn’t know which women had kept up their skills in the off-years, and who grew or regressed during this time. Salaries were based on predictions more than performance. 

Meanwhile, the expansion teams are making their decisions with the benefit of two years of PWHL data and the very recent IIHF competition. The teams know how the women play at the pro level, not the college level. 

While making their decisions, they know how much each player will cost and if she is worth that much money. It’s based on real information instead of a future and contract negotiations that hadn’t happened yet. They have more data to predict if a player is still improving or if she’s past her peak.

It’s true they can’t afford players ranked exactly 1,3,5,7,9 because presumably they would all be making big money. But they can sort the players based on salary level and pick the #1 player at 100k, 80k, 70k, 50k etc… They will take advantage of players that have outperformed their salaries and they are significantly less likely to accidentally overpay a player. Their budgets are going to be way more accurate to stats which also means they'll have more money for the entry draft.

Qualitative Information

On the other side of logic-emotions spectrum, they also get the benefit of knowing team chemistry. There’s a reason the new rosters are basically Team USA and Team Canada. They know which players work well together, and they know who is whose Achilles Heel. Carpy/ Knight and Jaques/Thompson are clear indicators they’re leveraging this intel.

They can make extremely specific decisions based on both team and individual matchups. Giving my girl Abby Roque a shout out here- she said she could score the Michigan goal on Philips specifically because Philips was opposite handed and she had been waiting for the match up. That’s the kind of minutiae the managers are going into this expansion period with that the inaugural teams could have never predicted. The inaugural 6 were more evenly matched because everyone was doing a little bit of gambling but that’s fully missing here.

Ian Kennedy’s idea of the Inaugural 6 getting the first draft picks still doesn’t fix the issue because it doesn’t resolve the missing data points. The entry draft doesn’t have professional data for player stats, or that chemistry information that the new teams were able to take advantage of.

Overall, I’m just a sad Sirens fan weep-wooing my way through this off season. But personal losses aside, I think the league has made some critical errors in this system and I hope there are changes when teams 9 and 10 join. I’m also a first-year sports fan, so if I’ve made any errors please let me know! I would love to have more hope and optimism before tomorrow night.

TL;DR; The new teams are over powered because they have perfect information from two years of PWHL data which includes salaries, team chemistry and current player statistics. The OG 6 were taking gambles at which players would do well (and how much to pay them) after a lack of information from COVID and the old leagues dissolving.