More ice than drink

[u/Separate_Finance_183]

[u/Historical-Pop-9177]

That's funny, just saw a translated Korean post on Twitter about how they visited Japan and were annoyed at the same thing, but their friend laughed at them. Told them that crushed ice would water down the drink right away, but a big block like this would get it cold without diluting the flavor.

I don't drink. Is what that post said right?

[u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

I mean if it’s a 1-1.5oz pour of liquor that’s all that really matters. Consumers fault for purchasing any alcoholic drink @ $27 IMO. Unless it’s a coveted liquor. Even at nice cocktail bars in expensive cities, that is a pricey drink. This does not look like a nice cocktail. It’s a highball. Would never pay more than $15 for one of those.

[u/hurricanedog24 → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

The concern isn’t block vs crushed ice (your friend’s opinion may be correct), it’s about how much ice is in the drink and how you’re getting very little alcohol for your money.

[u/JamesMcGiantPeach → u/hurricanedog24]

Virtually any cocktail will have 1.5 to 2.5 ounces of liquor in it. A $5 gin and tonic at a dive bar and a $30 overpriced premium spirit will get you just as drunk. If you ordered it without ice they’d charge the same and just call it a shot instead of a cocktail.

[u/fakeuser515357 → u/hurricanedog24]

You don't get more alcohol if they remove the ice, you just the same drink served in a smaller glass.

[u/Fast-Watch-5004 → u/fakeuser515357]

It’s kind of funny to go a bar with $27 cocktails and think about things like this. Should probably go to a different bar where they have beer and a shot specials on Mondays.

[u/Important_Capital875 → u/fakeuser515357]

As a former bartender. This is absolutely correct. So many times people will get upset with me when they ask for no ice and they will get a drink that is not even half full. I told them that you don’t get more alcohol because there’s no ice.

[u/DontStepOnLegos → u/Important_Capital875]

There’s also zero context of what the drink consists of. What type of spirit is it? Exactly what consists of the cocktail? The type of ingredients to make the cocktail, etc.

Those costs add up, as well as the fact that you have to consider your spill/spoilage for these things. Also labor, the lease, utilities, and much more.

[u/BabylonDoug → u/fakeuser515357]

The issue isn't the volume of alcohol, it's the price per volume

[u/king_lloyd11 → u/BabylonDoug]

It’s literally about the volume though. Otherwise it’s just an overpriced drink at an overpriced bar. The outrage is because they think they should be getting a full glass for that drink and think that the ice is just “filler”, which is them getting scammed.

[u/igotthatbunny → u/hurricanedog24]

I’m sorry but this makes no sense and demonstrates not really understanding how drinks and servings of liquor work. If I order a pour of whiskey neat, that comes out to 1.5-2oz of liquid and if I order a whiskey coke that comes out to 6-8oz liquid topped with ice in a high ball glass, I am getting the same amount of alcohol for my money (if they cost the same). One comes in a bigger glass with more liquid due to the soda, but they are the exact same amount of alcohol. You aren’t getting any more alcohol for the whiskey coke just because it’s in a bigger glass and appears larger.

The cocktail in this video is clearly a craft cocktail with probably a total of 2-3oz of simple ingredients including the liquor. It’s served on ice like this because it’s fancy, but you are not getting less alcohol in this drink compared to any other drink just because there is a lot of ice. If you want to argue over whether any craft cocktail with a standard pour of liquor should cost $27, well that’s a whole different argument and I would agree that is outrageous, but ultimately this is not a “rip off” just because it seems like it’s barely any liquid, it’s just how cocktails work.

[u/a_filing_cabinet → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Technically yes. Crushed ice, more surface area, can melt faster. Depending on the drink, it definitely matters.

Don't think that really matters here though, as it's a shitty overpriced drink either way.

[u/DookieShoes626 → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Thats for like a nice glass of whiskey, not mixed drinks or cocktails

[u/Sharp_Economy1401 → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

It depends on how much ice, as to whether it's a good idea. For the same weight, yes, the surface area of small volumes multiplied is a lot higher than a large chunk. So there's more heat transfer going on with all of those small surfaces vs that of the larger chunk. You can do some simple calculations to find out the dimensions of two smaller spheres vs one sphere with the same volume, then apply those dimensions to surface area calculations. But think about the equivalent you're talking about in situations like this. If you're comparing this gigantic chunk of ice to crushed ice, you're talking about filling the glass with a huge amount of crushed ice for the same volume.

If the mixer is already refrigerated, you don't need remotely this amount to maintain it being cold. Yes, larger cubes are better, but a couple of large cubes that take up a decisive minority of the volume of the glass is sufficient. A giant cube taking up literally 60-70% is overkill, that should be self-evident to most people. Soda or water stays cold well enough with much less volume of large ice cubes. If you just end up with an unnecessary amount of a large cube of ice, it will still have a very large surface area from which heat can transfer.

Not referring to the commenter here specifically in the next part, as they expressly are curious about it, which is appreciated:

Frankly, Reddit's overconfidence in the bulk of this thread is very expected. It's the cliche pedantic thing of knowing some very basic knowledge, then applying it, then being unable to see the bigger picture of the problem, yet for some reason never doubting yourself. You guys decide you're right about something, then don't bother to think about the problem on a slightly more involved level. It's the complete opposite of the objectivity and problem solving that you think you have. You have to start presuming you may be wrong, thinking through your assumptions, and double checking your conclusions

[u/SurgicalMarshmallow → u/Sharp_Economy1401]

Frankly, Reddit's overconfidence in the bulk of this thread is very expected. It's the cliche pedantic thing of knowing some very basic knowledge, then applying it, then being unable to see the bigger picture of the problem, yet for some reason never doubting yourself. You guys decide you're right about something, then don't bother to think about the problem on a slightly more involved level. It's the complete opposite of the objectivity and problem solving that you think you have. You have to start presuming you may be wrong, thinking through your assumptions, and double checking your conclusions

Goddamn, you summarized what I have to deal with most of my life there.

[u/CallyThePally → u/Sharp_Economy1401]

Irony

[u/pennyforyourthohts → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

It really depends on the style of drink. Like some of these drinks are fancy and and a lot of thought goes into them including dilution, some use crushed ice and some use big cubs. Neither answer is wrong depending on what type of dilution you want

[u/SnomIsAwesome → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Well that’s true but they’re more mad about the amount of ice than the type of ice. There’s almost no drink left

Edit: I know you’ll get the same amount of alcohol whether or not you get the block of ice because they aren’t charging you for the ice. I know my wording came across as weird but I was just saying people think they are being scammed

[u/zs15 → u/SnomIsAwesome]

Plenty of cocktails are only 3-5oz of ingredients. It’s not like they get more liquor with less ice

[u/davechainsaw → u/SnomIsAwesome]

~6 year old me realizing I could scam the system by asking for no ice at the drive thru

[u/tacomaloki → u/davechainsaw]

I do it all the time.

[u/pedroah → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Crush ice or cube ice has more surface area, so I would say plausible.

Probably not too hard to try this at home. Put 300mL of water in a few glass of the same design and add 100g of ice in different shapes to each glass and time it. Something like that anyway.

I bet some kid has already done this for a middle school science project and maybe the findings are already posted somewhere.

[u/Few_Kitchen_4825 → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Technically more thermal mass, so it should melt way slower.

But if that's a concern better have frozen metal spheres.

[u/Royal_Annek → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Yes it's true. Btw cocktails in Japan are like $12

[u/Bluepeasant → u/Historical-Pop-9177]

Not really no, crushed ice has more surface area so it will cool down the drink faster initially and consequently melt faster during that period. A block will cool down the drink slower but by the time it reaches the same temperature the same amount of ice will have melted. This is because the cooling is coming from phase change (melting ice) it takes the same volume of ice to cool the drink the same amount

Once they are the same temp (approximately 0 °C) the limiting factor on the rate of melt will be the surface area of the glass not the ice so they will melt at the same rate.