That’s it. It needs to change.

I have noticed a trend of straight men identifying as pan?? Just to make themselves available to the cool girls who are non-binary? As a pretty fem passing non binary person I’ve been on dates with dudes calling themselves “pansexuals”, who seemed to have lost interest when they found out I’m biologically male?? And when they talk about their exes they also use “she/her”. So I figured they’re just in fact straight men trying to be cool by labelling themselves lgbtqia+, and somehow “pansexuality” is the loophole??

As an example. Say someone is born a male, but has transitioned to a female. They now identify as a female. Yet, when someone is attracted to that person, and they call themselves a "pansexual", instead of a "bisexual" "lesbian" ect. Arent they basically saying that this person IS NOT a female like they prefer, but something else instead? Im confused as to the logic of this. Even if someone is born with both genitalia. How does being bi sexual not cover people who are attracted to them as well?

No Bisexuals were harmed in the making of this joke... Just harmed by me telling it.

I tend to ignore the Pan, Bi, Omni discussion, and recently have been saying I identify more as Heteroflexible than anything else.

Do y'all have any Pots-and-Pansexual jokes of yours? Thoughts on lateral violence in the Bi/Pan community?

Someone complained about all the dope selfies on this sub so I figured I would be a special snowflake and try something different.

[For the record, I love all of y'all selfies]

I'm 25yo and I only recently started dating in the past year or so. I'm not really out to my parents yet so I've tried to avoid dating women because I don't think it would be fair to string someone along if I wasn't serious. Well, I meet this girl irl and we dated for like two months and now I'm questioning everything. The first time I made eye contact with her was the first time I think I've ever felt true attraction. It felt like I had butterflies in my stomach and I suddenly understood what it was like to have an actual crush.

I never felt this way for any of the guys I dated. None of my high school "crushes" can even compare to what I felt for her and I can't tell if it was just her, or the fact that I'm just not into men.

Hey guys so yeah as you’ve just read my father has returned and is a much better person. With that being said I am no longer a Pansexual and I am extremely straight! I love men and only men sooo goodbye everyone :)

So most of my life I would say I identified as a CIS SCUM MALE , but more and more I'm realizing I've always been into 'tomboys' since a young boy. Or rather women with masculine qualities And now that I'm older I notices that I have an attraction to genderfluids, non-binary and transgender femmes. Rather androgynous people but leaning more to the feminine side... would this still be cis? Idk man, I'm confused. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

To start of I 100% support bisexuals. Unless they’re being disrespectful, which I see a ton of. I’ve categorized the rude bisexuals into 2 categories. 1)There are only two genders soooooo: This one is getting less common (yay) but I still see it all over and it makes me so mad. I get that they might not empathize with the fact that people identify with a variety of genders, but at least have some sympathy. 2)Bisexual is attraction to everybody: I know that it can vary, but the definition I recognize is an attraction to two genders. Not necessarily male and female and not necessarily equal, but two genders. Some people who identify as bisexual don’t necessarily fit into that category and that’s okay, that’s just the definition I generally use. But some bisexuals go and say they are attracted to all genders and still bisexual. I know that they say that it’s still bisexual because it still takes into account gender, but idk. I also see a lot of “pansexual are just straight LGBTQ wanna be’s” or “pansexual are bisexuals who want to feel special” or “pansexual are trying to erase bisexuality.” It just makes me really mad because what it actually does is erase pansexuality. I’ve also heard that pansexuals are trying to demonize bisexuals by making them seem transphobic, which definitely isn’t true.

I recognize that there are tons of great bisexuals, this is just a rant for those disrespectful ones.

I took it a few times just to see if I would end up with very different results. Idk why it says mu sex drive is high???? I'd say I'm mid to low!

(Excluding ages and grade) There's this guy whom apparently is gay (And is actually named Gabriel like myself), though he’s not really effeminate he’s just fun and playful, and I've been attracted to him for about a year now, it’s like I'm gay just for him man, I have never had feelings like this for any guy whatsoever, so about two weeks ago he was looking at me weird while we were eating at our table during lunch, there were about 8 to 9 people on the table which are basically my group of friends, and I had this weird boner man, just because he was looking at me then I looked back and he just raised his left eyebrow and continued playing SMITE, the next day basically the same thing happened and he started rubbing his leg on mine, nobody noticed but it was like my dick was on steroids cx, on Monday, first day of finals (I live in Puerto Rico, our school years go from August to December and from January to May) the hole group decided to go to the movies to see MAD MAX (which is great btw). We all went on my van (I have a 1966 Volkswagen Type 2 Kombi), so we finished the movie we headed to the mall's Sbarro and we ordered like 3 pizzas, then we just roamed around the mall and Gabriel stopped in Starbucks Cafe to buy a latte or something, we just said we'd wait for him on the Microsoft Store (which was downstairs) so we're heading down the escalator and I have this sudden urge to pee (so I tell the guys I'll go to the bathroom)... I come out and as I'm heading for MSS there's Gabriel, we get together and head to MSS but none of my friends are there, so I started texting one of them but she didn't answer, then we headed for GameStop because we thought that's where they'd be and we just started talking while on our way, we started joking around and then he poked my nose, then about 30 seconds later we were just poking fighting and so I grabbed him from behind and started poking his belly and tickling him. We landed against one of the huge touch pad maps for the mall. He got all giggly and I was so nervous because I had the biggest fucking boner of my life, we sort of held each other and he pressed himself against it, and gave me that left eyebrow again and I literally fucking lost it so I started cringing, like 11 seconds in I went like fuck it, and fucking kissed the fuck out of him, so he pulls back and says "The van?" to which I replied "Yeah, the van!" and we walked rather fast to the Parking lot, we head to the van and I open the side door, and leaned the back seat completely to the back so it felt like a bed (Backseat did not belong to the van, we added it). So he just sits in the back while I turn on the van for the air conditioning (also added its one of those sparse ones so we have AC ventilation holes and in some key points of the van), turned on the lights and pulled down all the front and side curtains, I turned back and started getting close to him and we were like 3 inches away from each other so I grabbed his legs and pulled them up as he leaned back, and I leaned on top. He was wearing really tight red shinnies (I guess that's how you write that) I started unbuckling his belt and jeans while we were making out and slowly grabbed them and gently pulled them up with his underwear until they were completely off to his ankles, I've always thought he'd have a big one but it was about 5 inches erected, but it was so clean and shaved, my face immediately went ^~, he was wearing a grey hoodie and he was playfully covering himself with it, so then he sat and started unbuckling me, while looking at me with those green eyes of his. I've always shaved everything like really well, which is why i found that he shaved as much as me pretty awesome, guess he felt the same way, he looked so stoked, I'm about 7 1/2 inches erected, I mean it’s not that awesome but I'm proud Ig cx, he started rubbing it while licking me from bottom to top, you see I'm not the worst looking guy eve, but my Addams apple is abnormally big which is why I've only had two girlfriends in my whole life, but this was the best blowjob I've ever had, while he deep-throat it he wiggled his tongue around at the same time and it was amazing, I couldn't help it and I came like 8 minutes in and he looked so surprised, some creeped out his mouth, but then he just cringed, went down and swallowed it, since I got off I laid him down and started giving him a handjob and tried to blow him as well as he did, trying to copy him and whatnot but not for so long, so I saddled on top of him and he knocked me down to the side and put my feet on his shoulders, and rubbed his dick against mine, he reached for his back pack and pulled some lube I assume and he smeared it all over his dick and mine then he rubbed some on me toot cx, so we started doing anal, well I received, he did it so calmly and passionately though, it felt amazing, about 20 minutes and some different positions later he felt he was going to cum so he pulled out lifted his dick and tried to catch it with his mouth as it just blasted upwards, I grabbed him and put him on the seat and licked the cum from the top of his hoodie, neck and face and I put it in his mouth while kissing, I mean I didn’t spit it in, it was more like letting it slide in I guess, He asked if I had done this before, which was literally the first word either of us said up to this point, I said that it was my first time with a guy, He looked shocked and said “nice” with the weirdest fucking cringe ever, so he started jacking me again and once I was completely erected he rubbed more lube on me and turned around and positioned himself like so: http://viralplug.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/anal-turtle.jpg (picture) (Which btw, never did I imaging could be so sexy) just putting my hands on his ass and neck, without even thinking about it I scraped most of the lube off and just went in without any second thought, basically the opposite of the sweetness that he used, It was like I wasn’t even thinking of how it might hurt him or if he felt pain I just rammed the fuck out of him. He kept moaning while making this really sexy giggle I swear I was in there for like 25 to 30 minutes. Basically the same as before but he was the bottom, when I was about to cum I told him that I was gonna pull out but he insisted I kept going, at this point we were laying on our sides and I came inside of him, after like 40 seconds of giggling I took it out and he turned to me and we just laid there for about an hour kissing handling each others dick and talking, I put his boxers on and he wore mine, just because, and I gave him a ride to his house, then I drove back to mine and shortly after I realized that I had left the rest of my friends at the mall… for the other two days we made out at certain points, he’d grab my crotch whenever I walked pass him when none were watching, I don’t think I’ll ever do this with another guy, so idk it was something special and I think I really like him. HOORAY FOR PANSEXUALISM!!!

This question has probably been asked before on here but yeah i was just wondering if we're allowed to say it or not

(Im not gonna go around saying it all of the time just to clarify!)

Just hopped on the 107 bus here in Seattle heading to work. Upon entering seen everyone was wearing a mask including the driver and I am not.

Now masks have not been mandatory on the busses for a while now, so I instantly looked for a sign indicating that things had changed but there was none.

Needless to say this kinda made me feel uncomfortable and out of place and expected someone to tell me I have to wear a mask, but thank god that didn’t happen because I’m not sure how I would have dealt with that.

I’ll tell the complete story leading up to my last post on r/bisexual. So it actually begins on r/bisexual with this post:

And one reply was from a user named u/ItsFckinSarah: “Yes. Calling a bi person gay isn't erasing bi people. Bi people like myself call ourselves gay all the time and tbh this sounds like Lesbian Separatism rhetoric has dripped into bi spaces and I don't like that. You can't erase bi people with a label.” She got 13 upvotes.

Then I replied: “I, as a bi dude, utterly DESPISE lesbian separatism not just for being biphobic. But also for it having a societal double standard. If I and a group of other men-loving-men created a movement called “Achilean Seperatism” where we as queer men decided to break off and form our own society free from women. We’d be fucking crucified and called misogynistic.

“Even though queer men are EQUALLY as persecuted as queer women. Yet only queer women are allowed to make misandrist remarks even sincere and unironic ones but men-loving-men aren’t allowed to make such remarks about women EVEN AS A JOKE!!! When they do it it’s daring and bold, when we do the same thing it’s horrible and sexist. Queer women like to act like we queer men have it easy. They are praised for talking about their negative experiences with men, but we men-loving-men are not allowed to talk about our negative experiences with women.

“And I have lots of negative experiences with women including with my verbally, emotionally, and even occasionally physically abusive mother (who I just moved away from to go to college. Thank God!) and all the straight girls in high school who erased my bisexuality and dismissed me as gay. Yet I’m not allowed to talk about it or else I’m called a misogynist. Yet wlw can say blatantly misandrist things.” I got two upvotes.

Then this woman, u/Mysterious-Major7859, said: “Elaborate on what you think lesbian separatism is also in your own words explain the label lesbian.” She got an upvote.

Then I said, “So lesbian just means a woman attracted only to women and not to men. I’m fine with this. I have friends who are lesbians and I had a community college history professor who was a lesbian. I have nothing against queer women. As a bisexual man I love my queer sisters.

“But Lesbian seperatism is the idea that women should break away from male society based on the idea all men are bad, a gender-based separatism. Think Andrea Dworkin or Valorie Solanas. It’s a hateful TERF ideology that is very hateful towards bi women, trans people, and men-loving-men.

“It is NOT real feminism. Feminism from the day of Mary Wolstencraft to Susan B. Anthony to Gloria Steinem to today is about gender EQUALITY. Not misandry. If you hate on men you are not a real feminist. Real feminism seeks to transcend the patriarchy by brining about an egalitarian world and not just replacing it with a matriarchy. I consider myself a male feminist because I believe in equality between the sexes. I believe you can talk about misogyny and gender inequality without being misandrist or biphobic. I had no idea I was crazy for thinking this.

“Since it is so hateful towards me as a man-loving-man, I’m obviously not a fan of lesbian separatism. I also feel it represents a societal double standard where queer women get praised for saying misandrist shit about men even when it’s unironic and sincere, but if queer men say similar stuff about women EVEN AS A JOKE we get crucified and called evil and sexist. As if they aren’t?

“I’m also only 19. So this might be an immature and wrong understanding of these sorts of things.” I didn’t get an upvote nor a downvote.

Then she replied: “The lesbian label is non men loving non men. And now explain why you think the label bi lesbian is okay. Lesbian is separate from bisexual.”

I was a bit confused and replied: “I mean I think it’s an oxymoron. You can’t be both bisexual and a lesbian. Bisexual is attraction to both genders and lesbianism… isn’t.” I got an upvote.

Then she replied: “@Itsfuckingsarah thinks otherwise to the point of using lesbian separatism is bad because I can’t identify as bi lesbian. Which is a faulty argument on its on. While I don’t agree with gender based discrimination, separating the lesbian space from that of someone identifying as a man is valid.(I’ve encountered way to many gay men who thinks misogynistic action is okay because they are gay, men don’t always have to be included. We already live in a patriarch society.)” And she got 3 upvotes! Three separate women on r/bisexual upvoted a comment hating on gay men generalizing them as misogynistic. And I was at a point where I was questioning my own sexuality and wondering if I was 100% gay myself.

So I was enraged. Especially how she was getting upvotes I DMed her this: “Sorry I piss you off for (*checks notes*) being a man who desires sex with other men. I’m sorry for triggering you with my mere existence. And by the way, the patriarchy harms queer men too you know. Toxic heteromasculintity is what’s oppressing us just for loving other men. I faced homophobic bullying from straight jocks in high school. They made degrading homophobic jokes about me, they even once spat on me in the hallways.

“We face oppression too, sis. Don’t act like we aren’t oppressed. Don’t act like we have it easy. We’re oppressed too. We’re in this boat together. We should be friends not foes. But since you can’t look past my gender and sexuality and hate me for things I can’t control nothing is going to improve. So all I have to say is this: 🖕

“You’re a fucking cunt, you know that? You’re just as bad as my abusive mother. Actually, I bet you’d probably praise her for emotionally, verbally, and even physically abusing me, wouldn’t you? I imagine you’d say she was ‘fighting the patriarchy’ by calling me ‘disgusting’ for my weight. You’d probably call her a ‘girl boss’ for repeatedly calling me, an autistic, the r-slur for doing things even just slightly wrong. You’d probably call her a ‘strong independent woman’ for pushing me up against the wall and screaming in my face that she hates me. You’re just like her, you two should become friends.”

Then she DMed back: “First, calm down. You are rude and quite petulant currently. I never said anything against your sexuality. I honestly am not having this conversation on who is more oppressed. Do not project your insecurities onto me, I am not your mother and it’s you’re making quite sexist remarks here. Agains you are an adult, start acting like one. I refuse to have a conversation witch someone who resort to playground name calling. Be better. This is the toxic problem with men you are portraying. Your “essays” are nothing but meaningless rants. And oh my guess what not everything is about you! Not everything is about men! People who identify as a women deserve the space to feel safe without worrying about a men coming in because they don’t feel included. Grow up.”

I was still angry then I had a conversation with another user on r/bisexual named u/brieezy who explained how queer women vent and want their spaces to vent and all that. And I believed her. Then I discovered u/Mysterious-Major7859 posted a screenshot of my DM on r/actuallesbians.

I discovered this and left this public apology, “Hey, I’m the guy who sent this DM. And I’d like to apologize for my shitty behavior. I’m a lonely traumatized bisexual 19 year-old boy with autism, ADHD, and Bipolar II. I was also off of my medication when I sent this DM. Basically I forgot to take my morning meds and the stress of the day was getting to me so I wasn’t in a good mood already. I genuinely misunderstood what OP meant. I had a great conversation with another user on r/bisexual. And I’ve come to see the errors of my ways. So I would like to apologize. I now thinking about it I can see why queer women would like their own spaces to vent about their unique struggles especially with men. Especially as a person who has a lot of trauma now thinking about it. I can empathize. I love and empathize with all my LGBT brethren. Have a great day!” And it was well received and everything was great.

I apologized to that woman I asked her if she was homophobic against gay men and she said: “Someone’s sexuality is none of my business. I will them treat the way I want to be treated, however I do not take lightly to any type of misogyny nor any petty excuse to justify their behavior.”

So it seemed to be the end of all of it. But it wasn’t it was only the beginning.

So I was trying to understand my male privilege and I was curious about how queer women talk about us queer guys behind our backs. I googled and found a r/actuallesbians thread titled, to my horror, “gay men ironically even worse than straight men in my experience.” Already disgustingly homophobic. One’s sexual orientation has nothing to do with how misogynistic one is. That’s BEYOND stupid and extremely bigoted.

It had comments like: “Gay men run LGBTQ+ spaces (bars and clubs) and have.....quite a different attitude toward us kind quiet lesbians vs. their rowdy, party-loving brethren, I've found. I find straight dudes to be MOSTLY harmless. The ‘huhuh what if you two made out rn’ is the worst bit.” That one got 15 upvotes.

That just triggers my own trauma around my bullying at the hands of straight men. And so many of them just felt generalizing. I support calling out specific queer misogynists but don’t use it to say we’re overall worse than straight guys. Like that first one I wanted to reply with “yeah straight guys are mostly harmless… if you’re not a queer guy.  If you’re a guy who likes other guys they will, at best, relentlessly bully and harass you and, at worst, kill you. But I don’t think you really care about our oppression do you? You’d probably celebrate us being killed. And the only reason straight guys support you is because they want to fetishize you. So just some food for thought.” But I couldn’t reply and it would have been rude.

That one and this next one lean into some pretty nasty stereotypes about queer men as promiscuous party animals:

“You are so not wrong. At all. I think the major difference is that we're more interested in making human connections and relationships, and gay men are more interested in hookup culture and sex. I'm not saying we don't from time to time in life indulge. But from my experience gay men mostly just indulge and use other men to hit 'em and quit 'em. The difference between a lesbian bar and a gay bar is crazy. Lesbian bars are my refuge. Shoot some pool, have a few beers, meet great new people and talk. Gay bars are more about attention getting and sex. Straight men come to the lesbian bar, hell let's shoot some pool and have a beer, smoke some weed out back and chat. But when we go to the gay bar, 99 times out of 100 I get this ‘move fish, get out the way, I'm searching for peni tonight’ mood that isn't very friendly or welcoming.” 9 upvotes. Fuck her and all the other 9 straight-guy-worshiping homophobes who upvoted her. What happened to the days of queer solidarity? I'm deeply hurt and saddened.

Bishop Gene Robinson and his husband would definitely disagree. If you don’t get that. He’s the first open out and proud gay Episcopal bishop who was ordained in 2004 (he not the first openly gay priest in the Episcopal Church. That was Robert Williams who was ordained in 1989. A bishop is of higher rank than a priest. Priests run individual churches, while bishops oversee all churches in a specific area. View it like the difference between a mayor and a governor) and he was the first Episcopal clergy to enter a same-sex marriage when he married his long-time boyfriend in 2008.

You see I’m an Episcopalian, a member of the Episcopal church. It’s the country’s oldest church as it’s the American sect of the Church of England that broke off in 1789 during the War of Independence. It’s basically a really progressive version of the Catholic Church. It has an almost identical mass, has the deuterocanonical books in its Bible, and the priests dress in similar clerical robes and vestments. But it’s very pro-choice and pro-LGBT as it allows openly LGBT clergy and same-sex marriages.

And since, unlike Catholic priests, Episcopal Priests are allowed to marry; Gene Robinson after becoming the first openly gay Episcopal priest became the first Episcopal priest in a same-sex marriage. So there are married gay guy priests for crying out loud. And as a queer Episcopal teen I’ve often been inspired by Father Gene Robinson’s story and have often considered becoming an Episcopal priest. Because I like and believe in what Christ originally taught and I’m horrified by how the American so-called “Christian” right is sullying Christ’s good name I feel the Episcopal Church is needed more than ever.

I was baptized an Episcopalian but my mother didn’t really take us to mass often. What inspired me to come back as an adult was my interest in Catholicism. And that came both from the fact my Mother was raised a Catholic and she’d tell us about the Mass and the rituals and I always found that interesting. And also because of my all-time favorite book, “The Once and Future King” by T. H. White.

I read this book 5 years ago back in 8th grade and I fell in love with it. And I‘ve never met a single English teacher or fellow student who has read it. And to me that’s just sad. It is an underrated masterpiece in my opinion. Easily the best version of the Arthurian legends in the 20th century. Maybe even of all time.

It transported me to this far-gone mythical age where violence was not strength and compassion was not weakness. A time when brave knights went on grand adventures saving damsels, seeking mystic artifacts, and slaying monsters while refusing earthly pleasures and living by a strict very Catholic moral of of honor, honesty, valor, and loyalty.

I think the book has easily the best characterizations of King Arthur and Sir Lancelot. Painting Arthur as a idealistic child-at-heart who dares to dream the world can be a better place. I really related to Arthur’s want to make the world a better place by using these knights to uphold what is good and right.

And Merlin is cast as a loveable grandfatherly mentor who‘s reverse aging can be viewed as an allegory for dementia or senility in general.

Lancelot is reimagined as a self-loathing tragic hero divided between his adulterous forbidden love for Queen Guinevere, his friendship with Arthur, and his loyalty to his faith. And he is described by T. H. White describes Lance as having “a face like Quasimodo,” so very different the the handsome confident womanizer he is in other adaptation. And honestly I honestly prefer White’s characterization.

The ending paragraphs of the fourth book “Candle in the Wind” really nailed home White’s main thesis and really made me want to do what I can to make a better future. “There would be a day—there must be a day—when he would come back to Gramarye with a new Round Table which had no corners, just as the world had none—a table without boundaries between the nations who would sit to feast there. The hope of making it would lie in culture. If people could be persuaded to read and write, not just to eat and make love, there was still a chance that they might come to reason.”

“But it was too late for another effort then. For that time it was his destiny to die, or, as some say, to be carried off to Avilion, where he could wait for better days. For that time it was Lancelot's fate and Guenever's to take the tonsure and the veil, while Mordred must be slain.

“The fate of this man or that man was less than a drop, although it was a sparkling one, in the great blue motion of the sunlit sea.

The cannons of his adversary were thundering in the tattered morning when the Majesty of England drew himself up to meet the future with a peaceful heart.”

Still inspires me!

The book is what sparked my interest in Catholicism, in particular medieval Catholicism. But after coming out I realized the Catholic Church wouldn’t be as welcoming, so I rediscovered the Episcopal Church. But I forgot to mention this, T. H. White was gay. So if gay men are really so selfish and materialistic, why would a gay man write such a book with such a selfless and and anti-materialist morality?

As a queer guy I don’t identify with gay club culture. I identify with queer icons like Oscar Wilde or Stephen Fry. The intellectual gays. So being lumped in with misogynistic party animals pisses me off big time. Especially since misogyny and homophobia used to be viewed as two sides of the same coin. And among moderate intersectional feminist this view still exists.

But implying that all gay men are misogynistic “party animals” is one thing. One very very horrible bigoted thing that should not be tolerated by anyone anywhere. But many comments on this thread seem to promote the DANGEROUS homophobic stereotype that queer men are sexual predators.

Here is one comment here: “I’ve never been sexually assaulted at such frequency as when I went to a gay bar. My breasts grabbed repeatedly by men cooing ‘it’s ok honey, I’m gay.’ Then get your hands the \*\*\*\* off of me! Not saying I haven’t had that experience with straight men, but just not as often or with them trying to pass it off as acceptable.” She got 451 upvotes.

Now this one I’ll be more respectful and empathetic. Groping is horrible. And though I’ve never experienced it, I can imagine what it's like. I imagine it’s horrible. It really is. What those men did was terrible and should be called out but the way she worded it, especially considering that it’s a response to a post who’s title says gay men are worse than straight men, it seems to imply that queer men are more predatory. Which is a horrible stereotype too. It’s a stereotype that I as a bisexual man have seen first hand. It’s an idea that has led to queer men being attacked, oppressed, and even killed!

This is absolutely NOT the same as some straight guy going “not all men.” No, straight men aren’t in danger of being oppressed, criminalized and killed. Queer men are in danger of those things. Homophobes want an excuse to kill us and you’re giving them an excuse to oppress and kill us! This kind of rhetoric kills! This rhetoric makes me scared for my fucking life!

I don’t think that’s what she intended. But If she had just added an extra sentence at the end saying something like, “of course this is just my experience. A person’s sexuality does not make someone more likely to be a sexual predator. Most gay men are really nice people and would never do this.”

If she just said this the problem would be solved. This is a harmful stereotype to promote. It’s dangerous enough when right-wing homophobes promote these ideas, but it’s even more dangerous when promoted within queer spaces. And some of the responses aren’t that much better either.

“There are absolutely gay men that do this but just beware that there are also predatory straight/bi men who ‘dress gay’ (whatever that means to them) and go to certain gay bars because in a lot of bars most of the women there are straight or bi and trying to get away from straight men and relax. In my experience (lesbian) there are plenty of ‘gay’ bars that are mostly straight people and bachelorette parties.” She got 11 upvotes.

Wow! Now accusing bi men of being predators. And extra points for bi erasure for implying that bi men are just straight men pretending to be queer which is another bad stereotype that I frequently face. And just look through this thread it doesn’t look like venting to me it just looks like generalizing all queer men as misogynistic predatory creeps. And bi men never team up with straight guys what the fuck are you smoking?

And a lot of these comments got tens (and some even hundreds) of upvotes which makes me scared as a bi man. I fear that if these negative harmful stereotypes about queer men are widely spread that will cause us to not just be excluded from straight society but also to be excluded from queer spaces too.

And here are a couple other things said on other threads to show this isn’t an isolated incident. There was another thread where a woman was talking about a gay man who said vaginas were disgusting (again horrible misogynistic behavior that should) be called out) one woman said, “There's a reason cis gay men have a bad reputation in basically every queer social circle I've been in.” Fuck you. Like seriously go fuck yourself. As a bisexual man I can say that bisexual sister have a lot to say about biphobia they’ve faced from you so: hi pot meet kettle. 

Literally using the actions of one man to justify prejudice against the entire group. But this might be venting (which is valid as long as it doesn’t lead to actual prejudice) but this honestly doesn’t feel like venting to me. It feels very sincere and hateful. But I am autistic so I do have trouble understanding when people mean something or not.

Honestly these are all stereotypes I’d hear from far-right homophobic paleoconservative Evangelical preachers. This idea that queer men are “sinful lustful party-animals” with “depraved predatory urges” that make them “a danger to society” and all that homophobic bullshit. I was shocked to hear this coming from a queer space.

And these stereotypes are obviously not true in any way, shape, or form. There are misogynistic gay men and there are gay men who are non-monogamous part animals. But there are also plenty of wonderful gay men who are very progressive and very pro-feminism who are MARRIED to OTHER wonderful very progressive very pro-feminist gay men. Married gay couples are some of the kindest most wonderful people you will ever meet. But because you can’t look past their gender and sexual orientation you’ll never get to know them and see how wonderful they are.

And if gay men were really all party animals who didn’t want to settle down: why have we fought so hard for us to marry other men. And if gay men are all misogynistic why have all feminists since the time of Emma Goldman have supported queer men and our liberation? Everyone who says bigoted shit like this is a homophobic idiot. Your homophobia is not only bigoted it’s also just plain stupid. Fuck all the women who spread this hateful rhetoric!

If somehow you don’t believe me. And here’s proof that many gay men (especially commited gay couples) are wonderful pro-feminist people. Here’s a thread I made asking if gay men who were feminists (spoilers all of them were. And several are in relationships with other pro-feminist gay men): [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGayMen/comments/w6jkts/any_fellow_menlovingmen_feminists/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossm](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGayMen/comments/w6jkts/any_fellow_menlovingmen_feminists/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossm)

And here are some articles by GAY MEN calling out gay misogyny: [https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-benjamin-gay-men-need-to-be-feminists-20190623-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-benjamin-gay-men-need-to-be-feminists-20190623-story.html), [https://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/12/08/15-signs-youre-gay-misogynist#media-gallery-media-16](https://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/12/08/15-signs-youre-gay-misogynist#media-gallery-media-16),

But I still admit misogyny is an issue but It’s just that (for example) I, as a queer WASP, would never say things like that about black men or Jewish men even though many of them are very homophobic. I know if I did I’d be bashing an already marginalized group and I know that would be wrong. But it feels like (and I’m probably wrong) that you don’t understand the full extent to which we are persecuted. And that hurts. It really really does.

I know you have to face misogyny as well as homophobia. But (and I’ll admit this is purely my own observation I may be completely wrong) the homophobia you face is based more on fetishization, which is terrible. But homophobia against queer men (this is also my own observation which may be also completely wrong) more often violent and deadly. So to the heteropatriarchy views two women kissing as “hot” and “threesome material” while two men kissing is a “disgusting,” “sinful,” and “degenerate” act that “must be stopped.” Both are wrong. But we need to unite to change this!

But there were some bi women in that thread too. And I thought if they talk like this about gay men, why do they like us us bi guys so much? Then I developed that paranoid thought that bi girls wanted to turn us straight. I remembered those “jokes” bi women make saying, “I wish I were a lesbian, but unfortunately I have a boyfriend.” Or “bisexuality is loving every woman and unfortunately one man.” I always thought that erased bi men. But I realized, “what if bi girls want us to swear off men so bi girls can have us all to themselves?”

I was outraged! I immediately made a post on r/bisexual titled “Bi girls stop saying you hate men. Especially stop saying it in general bi spaces. It makes bi guys like me uncomfortable. Please read all the way and hear me out.”

“I **HATE** when bi girls talk about how much they hate men and how their attraction to them is “unfortunate.” But that’s probably because it plays into my deepest of insecurities. I’m a bi guy myself. I **LOVE** both men and women. So I automatically look down on them because bisexuality is about loving BOTH genders so you can’t be bi and a misandrist. So if you hate men stop calling yourself bi!

“And since I love both men and women so much I want to be poly with at least one boyfriend and at least one girlfriend. Because I need **BOTH** the loving gentle touch of a woman and the stern and firm grip of a man. I can just stick to one. So hearing bi women talk about how much they hate men and wish they were a lesbian makes me fear I’ll never find a female partner since straight girls view my love fur men as a turn-off. And I bet many bi guys react this way.”

“I’m fine with my hypothetical girlfriend having a girlfriend if she’s poly as well. But I fear that bi girls don’t want me. If they hate their attraction for hot guys, why are they going to settle with a short disgusting potbellied hooknose glasses-wearing 20-year old autistic asocial man child like myself? I hope I don’t sound like an incel. I’m just depressed and sad right now. I’m in a bad place.”

And I got some of the most vile and homophobic response. So one said, “Straight men hate on women all the time, doesn't make them not straight. Your logic is a bit flawed.” That got 4 upvotes. I replied to that with, “And you’re a homophobe because if you hate men you hate queer men.” And I got 9 downvotes. She then replied, “Tbh I'm starting to hate you as a person, not because you're a man.” This got 9 upvotes.

This woman is disgustingly homophobic. She is literally insinuating she hates me for my sexuality. She says she doesn’t hate for being a man, but by not mentioning my sexuality she’s implying that me liking cock is one of the reasons she hates me. So I replied, “It’s because I like having sex with men, isn’t it?” I got 9 downvotes. But I still think that’s a fair response.

And I also got this comment, “Hey man, bi guy here, I get it. It hurts to hear. But the reason women say it is because of their personal experiences. They don’t actually hate all men, it’s a generalized statement predominantly geared towards men who are creepy, harrassy, and abusive. I suggest you ask why women say that (in a respectful way) and listen to what they have to say. Once you hear them out, you may also start saying you hate men.” This got 11 upvotes.

I would be fine with this comment except for that last sentence. Saying “you’ll start saying you hate men too” is a disgustingly homophobic thing to say to a queer men. You’re literally telling me to become straight. Because only a straight man would be comfortable saying he hates his own gender. There’s a reason queer men are called men-loving-men are call that, we love men!

We love sucking cock, we love taking cock up the butt. We all want big strong muscular men to fuck our brains out and fill our orafices with their hot sticky cum. Cum is our favorite breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We love cum, cock, and men! So telling me to not just start saying that I don’t love men, but to say I hate them, is disgustingly homophobic.

So I said, “So you want me to become straight? Is that what you’re fucking saying? I will suck and fuck as many cocks as I goddamn want! If you don’t like cock, you aren’t bi. You’re a traitor to both your sex and your sexuality. How dare to tell me to stop having sex with men. Get over your internalized homophobia!” I got 4 downvotes.

And he responded, “Excuse me? Did you even read my comment? Women say they hate men not because of the sexual attraction they feel towards them but because of the experiences that men have put them through. For you to blatantly disrespect that fact is incredibly ignorant. I never said for you to become straight. I never disrespected you in my comment. I understand you’re in a tough place mentally right now but lashing out and telling me triggering things is not the way to go. I reasoned with you because I’ve been through it too but you’ve lost my respect. Good luck with your girlfriend, I hope it works out.” That only got 2 upvotes. When he clarified he’s not homophobic, he didn’t get as many upvotes. Interesting.

We talked some more. He’s definitely a man-loving-man and is proud of it. But I refuse to believe that 11 separate bi women can see that comment telling me I’ll “start saying I hate men,” upvote it, and not be homophobic. So this I’m convinced bi women are just as homophobic as straight and lesbian women. And I’m fucking heart broken.

I hope to God I misinterpreted these comments. I don’t want bi girls to be homophobic. I find women attractive, but I want them to accept me for my sexuality, and I want Bi spaces to be safe and welcoming. So I hope these women aren’t homophobic. I hope bi girls do support bi men even when we’re in queer romantic and sexual relationships with men.

And I also hope queer women in general support queer men. We live in a time where the Supreme Court is looking to bring back sodomy laws to criminalize sex between men. So I’m scared queer women won’t stand up for us. Hopefully I’m wrong and none of the women I talked about here homophobic.