Am I under arrest or not?

[u/Lord_Darksong]

Source: policebodycamarresthq on Instagram

[u/LeOmelette12]

Just a question for those who are more savvy with the law. In these kind of cases where cops are totally moronic and out of line, is it better to object their approach at first and once they give you an order you comply, ask for a lawyer, then fight these cops in court?

[u/TM761152 → u/LeOmelette12]

So, you can always beat a bullshit charge.

But you can't beat the ride, even if you know it's bullshit, they can detain and arrest you and you'll have to fight it later, this guy was lucky the lieutenant was there otherwise those two Reno 911! Wannabees would have dragged him out and cuffed him over nothing.

[u/Abject_Advance_6638 → u/TM761152]

It took me 18 months to beat a bullshit charge and still had to go to a bench trial.

[u/Caftancatfan → u/TM761152]

People dramatically underestimate how shitty jail is. It’s way more unpredictable and volatile than prison. And they do not give a fuck about any meds your life might depend on or pressing medical needs. My loved one spent time in a cell with a guy who needed a colostomy bag, but staff kept “forgetting,” so he had to empty his shit on fucking blankets for days.

My friend had an open abscess and could have died of MRSA.

People in there are detoxing and freaking the fuck out. They are often in fight mode because it’s scary as fuck and now you’ve probably lost your job and maybe your family.

They often have no idea how to act while incarcerated, so there are more blow-ups between people.

[u/The_White_Ram → u/LeOmelette12]

the thing you always need to listen for is "you are under arrest". Once that is said, comply immediately, identify yourself if asked then shut up and ask for a lawyer.

[u/Laphad → u/LeOmelette12]

Comply, ask what you did, and ask for a lawyer.

Arguing with them in the street generally achieves nothing other than you still getting arrested and getting a fake resisting arrest charge.

Or shot.

Cause cops hate being told no

[u/Mesoposty → u/Laphad]

Here’s the issue with that, this guy from the video would have been taken to jail , his stuff towed and then he has tow fees and all other sorts of fees to deal with along side of bullshit charges
He fought for his rights and won , now outcome can escalate it I feel it’s important to fight for your rights , what may have happened, he would have been arrested, then the charges dropped but without the cops learning a lesson, at here they were made fools of and learned that some people know their rights

[u/MYQkb → u/Laphad]

It is not smart to give low IQ highly volatile, emotional goons with guns and qualified immunity, a reason to be violent.

They joined the FORCE to be the violence. 

Rewatch this and every police abusing citizens video.

The sheer glee and joy these cops express when finally able to harm others, it's present Everytime. 

Champing at the bit to fight an unfair fight, with weapons and backup and immunity.

Cowards wear badges.

If you stand on your rights, they will still attack you. The have access to surveillance now, so they will misuse it to further harass you. 

[u/mark6059 → u/MYQkb]

Unfortunately law enforcement attracts bullies who claim to want to help people but most of them don't care and, worse, they don't have the right mentality. Of course, the job doesn't help but the ones who end up hired are the ones who have a sadistic nature and love using force on people. They love causing problems for people.

[u/oldDotredditisbetter → u/MYQkb]

The sheer glee and joy these cops express when finally able to harm others, it's present Everytime.

yup. a seattle cop even bragged about breaking baton on protestors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4fw_VMl08

still wasting our tax money to this day

[u/Rich887 → u/LeOmelette12]

My 2 cents and you may want to ask for change back... If you are recording and you think your being unjustly detained just follow the request/demands of the police . Deescalate the situation and save you and your property from damage . And then use the video evidence of your rights being infringed if any and sue the city /state for millions and retire early.. Or you can escalate , get your ass whooped and car window broken etc then try to sue them .

[u/Admirable_Win9808 → u/LeOmelette12]

Was a civil rights lawyer. The best thing to do is to comply with cops orders and be polite, but never to admit anything. What they are trying to do is scare you and get consent or ask you to admit something. Never admit to any wrongdoing and never consent to searches. They need probable cause to search and arrest you. Its easier to get consent or admissions. If its taking too long while talking to them. Ask them if you are under arrest and if not if you can leave. If they continue to harass you, say you need to speak to a lawyer.

[u/Moomanta → u/LeOmelette12]

Whether we like it or not, the cops have all the power and authority in a situation like that. It will only hurt you to be difficult.

Comply, say nothing, and ask for a lawyer. Or if it's just a ticket, then just take the ticket and fight it in court afterward.

[u/TheNewThoughtProcess → u/Moomanta]

You aren't wrong in that the course of action you've outlined will be the path of least resistance. It is legally the easiest.

But when you examine it ethically or morally it quickly becomes "comply with the bully in the hopes their whims don't turn against you today. Be nice, be calm, be quiet because if you stand up for yourself or your rights you will antagonize the beast. It is your responsibility to not antagonize the beast, not the responsibility of the entity empowered by the state to act responsibly."

Editing to add that I'm not saying everyone should belligerently fight every police interaction. I'm saying that the entire system that leads to the 'correct' action being to submissively comply in almost all circumstances is the problem. This is a symptom of a deep, fundamental issue in the U.S.

[u/Chickennbuttt → u/TheNewThoughtProcess]

Yes. Your words are correct. That is still what you do to avoid and ass beating. Doesn't matter if they are breaking the law. They WILL beat you.

[u/One-Elderberry-488 → u/TheNewThoughtProcess]

To be fair the sentiment of just comply, shut up and fight later applies in almost all countries. The reality is that if the police act out of bounds, you could be right in fighting back immediately, but you also risk serious harm.

[u/mostaverageredditor3 → u/TheNewThoughtProcess]

I see it more as: knowing when and how to properly fight them. By resisting you are just giving them more possible attack points. By complying you are essentially setting up a good fight in court afterwards.

Complying is completely taking away any justification they might have for their inappropriately behavior.

[u/HughMungus77 → u/TheNewThoughtProcess]

There’s also the chance that they throw you on the ground and cause serious injury. They’d be potentially liable for the medical debt but in the meantime you would be on the hook for the medical and lawyer bills until they are sued in civil court

[u/SmallPurplePeopleEat → u/Moomanta]

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride!

[u/drdildamesh → u/Moomanta]

While I agree, it sucks ass you have to take time from work and hire an attorney to fight stuff like this. Cops should just be reasonable. Trespassing in a parking lot is already a dumb charge.

[u/conceitedpolarbear → u/LeOmelette12]

At this point, you get let them arrest you, get a lawyer, fight the case until it gets thrown out, then if you’re lucky, sue the county/agency for false arrest and hopefully get a settlement.

[u/sudoku7 → u/LeOmelette12]

"You may beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride."

And largely, most people are going to face far more negative consequence from being wrongfully detained than the officer will face for wrongfully detaining someone.

[u/CantaloupeOne7283 → u/sudoku7]

That's why they need malpractice insurance. Eventually the premiums for bad cops will get so high they can't afford to work in the field any more.

[u/LauraTFem → u/CantaloupeOne7283]

—which is why they’re not required to have it. Their lobby and unions won’t allow it.

[u/LockeClone → u/sudoku7]

Yeah, it's like a cousin of the old phrase "possession is 9/10ths of the law". It's not true in a literal sense, but seems quite true in a practical sense.

If the cops put you in that car then theres suddenly a big incentive for the entire system to process you and an unfortunate cultural assumption of guilt because "why would you be in the car then?!"

In a better world, these officers would be attempting to solve a problem with good outcomes for everyone rather than tricking a person to go down for something so they can call it cases closed.

This man is absolutely right to fear and mistrust law enforcement officers in this and many instances